KVR Audio

DavenH · Post by **DavenH** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:37 am

Dasheesh wrote:Perhaps Spectral synthesis would be a more accurate decryption.

I call it that - Granular Spectral Synthesiser.

Cycle synthesizes by rendering a chain of cycles from vectorized waveshapes, then spectrally filters or adds to them. If you're comfortable with considering a single time-domain cycle a grain, then it's granular.
No resynthesis, samples are not basic to the workflow, but they can help with inspiration.

I need to be able to quickly build what I want and have control over what I'm doing. That just isn't what this thing is built for.

This was exactly what Cycle was built for

A classic synthesizer doesn't give you real timbral control the way it does. You could tweak for eons without getting the timbre you want, instead of the basic process of analysing it, then drawing it in Cycle. It being either the waveshape or the spectrum that is characteristic of that timbre.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:45 am

If I knew exactly what each editing window was for maybe that would be true, but as it stands we are just guessing at what each edit window is capable of, then there are multiple variations to consider for each vector point...and it just gets more complex from there. But i've been doing this for more than 20 yrs. so I'm feeling a challenge coming on at this point. I want to see if I can start from a basic "no sound" and see if I can get it to make a noise now... :0. Maybe I'll reload the thing and try again. It would be easier if there was a UNINSTALL, but realize you are still working on it. I feel obligated to give it another go now though.

DavenH · Post by **DavenH** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:48 am

Ok so please let me know if there are other Cycle-OSX issues currently than these

- user native OSX file browser so usb drive is visible etc
- save dialog behind UI in Logic and maybe Reaper
- crashes when loading wave file in some cases
- VST doesn't repaint when app focus regained on host
- freehand draw tool dumb and creates too many points (fixed)
- ratings don't always save

Bolded are currently fixed in the next update. Thanks everyone for their patience so far!

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:49 am

That uninstall is a pet peeve I have of most software so don't feel I'm picking on you. The kit did sound very nice to the ears.

DavenH · Post by **DavenH** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:51 am

Dasheesh wrote:That uninstall is a pet peeve I have of most software so don't feel I'm picking on you. The kit did sound very nice to the ears.

No you're right. I'll include an uninstall script in the real thing. And thanks

DavenH · Post by **DavenH** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:02 am

Dasheesh wrote:If I knew exactly what each editing window was for maybe that would be true, but as it stands we are just guessing at what each edit window is capable of, then there are multiple variations to consider for each vector point...and it just gets more complex from there.

When you load a sample into an audio editor, you get multiple views of it usually. The waveform (time domain) and the spectrum (frequency domain). The editing windows in Cycle correspond the same way.

Cycle has panels that distinguish between the instantaneous versus the time-spanning, so there's both the immediate harmonic/phase spectrum & waveshape of the sound directly at the playback cursor, and the spectrogram/waveform surface depicting the entire sound over time.

Cycle was nice an simple, and useless, at one point. There's a reason for all parts of the design and it's the end goal - power. Complexity is double edged, but in my opinion it's as simple as it can be without serious sacrifices.

Most of the things that might worry people like "multiple variations" of vector points, don't need to be considered until that functionality is needed (it's for making the sounds dynamic in key scale or mod wheel modulation). Can't blame you for not knowing that though... maybe it needs a starter mode that hides the frills.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:14 am

Well, you won't believe this... but after having it explained I just went and reinstalled and started from a "new file" and got it sorted. I had to turn "on" each window and start building from there. It was that part where I had to go hover over all the little symbols and figure out what they were for (there's a lot of them). I think i'm getting it now...I thought it was supposed to manipulate user samples (resynthesis), but it's a "build your own" from nothing kind of thing... Thanks for the conversation... it's a beautiful peace of kit.... Now lets see if I can do anything useful with it...

UncleAge · Post by **UncleAge** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:52 am

DavenH wrote:Ok so please let me know if there are other Cycle-OSX issues currently than these

Been playing with it most of the day and I got nothing more as of now.

UncleAge · Post by **UncleAge** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:34 am

One small niggle. In the Deformers window the number on the layers button doesn't automatically update with the correct default layer when switching from a preset with more layers to a preset with less. It doesn't affect the greyed total count to the right of the active layer indicator. Clicking on it once will set it to a layer that is within the range of the current preset.

So if switching from a preset where this parameter was 5 and the fifth one was in focus, and then another preset is selected which only has one layer, the text would indicate 5 of 1. This is indicated on the control as well as the information/help text window at the top. However the total layer count (greyed number to the immediate right of the current layer indicator) does show the correct total.

DavenH · Post by **DavenH** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:43 am

UncleAge wrote:One small niggle. In the Deformers window the number on the layers button doesn't automatically update with the correct default layer when switching from a preset with more layers to a preset with less. It doesn't affect the greyed total count to the right of the active layer indicator. Clicking on it once will set it to a layer that is within the range of the current preset.

So if switching from a preset where this parameter was 5 and the fifth one was in focus, and then another preset is selected which only has one layer, the text would indicate 5 of 1. This is indicated on the control as well as the information/help text window at the top. However the total layer count (greyed number to the immediate right of the current layer indicator) does show the correct total.

I know exactly what you're saying. I keep meaning to fix that.

So far with the bugs
- preset rating was indeed borked, now fixed
- fixed a deadlock
- improved freehand drawing, I think
- fixed save dialog Z index I think
- native file browser for audio files

I haven't been able to reproduce the wav loading crash. There does look to be some graphic corruption though. I'd make good use of a crash dump for that...

Since it'll take some time to fix that and I want to keep things moving along so I'll get to it and the vst repaint bug next time. Building a new installer now.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:30 am

DavenH wrote:
UncleAge wrote:One small niggle. In the Deformers window the number on the layers button doesn't automatically update with the correct default layer when switching from a preset with more layers to a preset with less. It doesn't affect the greyed total count to the right of the active layer indicator. Clicking on it once will set it to a layer that is within the range of the current preset.

So if switching from a preset where this parameter was 5 and the fifth one was in focus, and then another preset is selected which only has one layer, the text would indicate 5 of 1. This is indicated on the control as well as the information/help text window at the top. However the total layer count (greyed number to the immediate right of the current layer indicator) does show the correct total.
I know exactly what you're saying. I keep meaning to fix that.

So far with the bugs
- preset rating was indeed borked, now fixed
- fixed a deadlock
- improved freehand drawing, I think
- fixed save dialog Z index I think
- native file browser for audio files

I haven't been able to reproduce the wav loading crash. There does look to be some graphic corruption though. I'd make good use of a crash dump for that...

Since it'll take some time to fix that and I want to keep things moving along so I'll get to it and the vst repaint bug next time. Building a new installer now.

Maybe it's more host specific? - so far I've mainly been using this in Bidule. I get a crash every time when I load a wav then change presets using the arrows

DavenH · Post by **DavenH** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:26 am

I think it must be to do with the modal-ness of the file browser popup window. Apparently that's a no-no. I've removed wave file loading from the plugins; of course it's still in the standalone - most of the heavy duty sound design should happen there anyway. But I can implement drag and drop file loading for the plugins down the road.

New installer up.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:38 pm

update:

Congratulations. Your plan is working beautifully as I find myself unable to put the thing down since making sense of the edit windows. I haven't as of yet made sounds that I wanted to make intentionally, but the happy accidents are happy indeed. Maybe some of the most lovely pads I've ever heard.

UncleAge · Post by **UncleAge** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:46 pm

DavenH wrote:...I've removed wave file loading from the plugins; of course it's still in the standalone - most of the heavy duty sound design should happen there anyway. But I can implement drag and drop file loading for the plugins down the road.

Definitely a little disappointing. I don't usually favor jumping in and out of the DAW environment for sound design. If it's necessary to keep things moving then so be it. I hope you can revisit that issue once you've ironed the other bugs out and have stable releases on all platforms.

DavenH · Post by **DavenH** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:14 pm

Dasheesh wrote:update:

Congratulations. Your plan is working beautifully as I find myself unable to put the thing down since making sense of the edit windows. I haven't as of yet made sounds that I wanted to make intentionally, but the happy accidents are happy indeed. Maybe some of the most lovely pads I've ever heard.

There's a learning curve...

UncleAge wrote: Definitely a little disappointing. I don't usually favor jumping in and out of the DAW environment for sound design. If it's necessary to keep things moving then so be it. I hope you can revisit that issue once you've ironed the other bugs out and have stable releases on all platforms.

One thing is certain, I can't have the native file browser in plugins. It crashes plugin hosts because is a heavyweight modal window.

Actually Amused - you could access the USB drive via the dropdown (click the > at the right of the addressbar), it's just that it's a really small hitbox for unknown reasons.

Perhaps if the custom file browser was improved, it might suffice.

Cycle OSX public beta