Should I continue learning music theory?

[Ecto]

Just one example: Michael (or Mihai) Cretu!

He has studied classical music theory even in the university, and he makes extraordinary CREATIVE music like nobody else does (with "Enigma").

I don't think that all this music theory is limiting him or making him less creative, quite the opposite, it helps him in his compositions and I can hear that in every song of him.

But I must admit, I had the most boring music teachers of the world, so I learned to hate music theory, too. Because they didn't explain how to practice it with an instrument, they just told the theory from books... Students should learn IN SCHOOL how to play an instrument, not only the plain music theory.

It's just since some years that I've seen how important music theory really is, and I wish I would have studied it in an university.

Whatever works for someone, might not work for someone else.
I see what you mean though

[cryophonik]

Enough dancing about architecture, where are the examples of something unique and creative that you've made by ignoring all those music theory "rules"?

I only make music for myself at the moment, but here is an example of one who don't:

That's a copout. Yeah, I've never studied art,and that allowed me to paint an image using colors never seen before. But, I won't show it to you because I only paint for myself. Music is to be heard, not talked about, and the proof is always in the pudding.

As for the others that you posted, the first is simply a common variation on a i-v-iv progression (plus the common 7th and 9th note extensions) in F minor - not a single non-harmonic tone to be found in the entire composition. Similar story for the second track (in C minor). So, where exactly is the genius in the chord progressions in either of those pieces?

Look, the fact that you posted two trance tracks with rather generic chord progressions says a lot. It's not uncommon for people just getting into trance to think that there is something totally unique and original about the chord progressions, simply because most trance producers don't know any better. I'll just leave it at that and wish you good luck. Maybe ignorance is bliss.

[vurt]

Enough dancing about architecture, where are the examples of something unique and creative that you've made by ignoring all those music theory "rules"?

the thing is, while one may not have any formal music training, surely by listening to music we pick up the rules by osmosis?
also i havnt heard much unique and original by people with all the knowledge either

[vurt]

what i dont understand is why person a not wanting to learn theory upsets person b so much?
no one is stopping person b from learning or forcing person b to listen to person a's output.

[cryophonik]

Enough dancing about architecture, where are the examples of something unique and creative that you've made by ignoring all those music theory "rules"?

the thing is, while one may not have any formal music training, surely by listening to music we pick up the rules by osmosis?
also i havnt heard much unique and original by people with all the knowledge either

Agreed on both points for the most part (except that I do not accept music theory as a set of "rules"), but that's not really the point that we are debating. I certainly wouldn't call anything that I create unique and original (in terms of chords/harmony/melody), nor do I really try to most of the time. I make music that is stylistically appropriate, for the most part, but I have my own certain style that I bring to it that makes it original. The point we're debating is whether or not learning as much as we have is somehow detrimental to the creative process. I have personally never once met a person who has educated themselves in music theory who would say that it has hindered their creativity - quite the opposite.

[Tricky-Loops]

Enough dancing about architecture, where are the examples of something unique and creative that you've made by ignoring all those music theory "rules"?

the thing is, while one may not have any formal music training, surely by listening to music we pick up the rules by osmosis?
also i havnt heard much unique and original by people with all the knowledge either

Nope. What people without any music theory knowledge do is asking here in the forum: "I've heard that chord progression, which is it, how can I make it, too?" and then they COPY it and make a song out of it. That's not picking up rules by osmosis...

And I've heard much more unique and creative stuff from people with a good music theory knowledge than from people without music theory knowledge, except Phil Collins... (and I'm sure that he knows some music theory nowadays, too)

[cryophonik]

what i dont understand is why person a not wanting to learn theory upsets person b so much?

It doesn't upset me at all. If person A doesn't want to be educated, that's his or her prerogative. But, when that uneducated person tries to tell the world that he/she is better off not knowing what he/she doesn't know, the only people who can counter that notion are the educated ones. And, unfortunately, it's a widespread misconception that being educated is somehow limiting when it comes to music.

[vurt]

Nope. What people without any music theory knowledge do is asking here in the forum: "I've heard that chord progression, which is it, how can I make it, too?" and then they COPY it and make a song out of it. That's not picking up rules by osmosis...

sp we dont learn what sounds in or out of tune by years of listening to a certain musical form? how does that explain different cultures music not sounding in tune to people from others culture?

And I've heard much more unique and creative stuff from people with a good music theory knowledge than from people without music theory knowledge, except Phil Collins... (and I'm sure that he knows some music theory nowadays, too)

ive heard original and unique stuff from both parties, just not much from either.

[Hink]

Enough dancing about architecture, where are the examples of something unique and creative that you've made by ignoring all those music theory "rules"?

the thing is, while one may not have any formal music training, surely by listening to music we pick up the rules by osmosis?
also i havnt heard much unique and original by people with all the knowledge either

Nope. What people without any music theory knowledge do is asking here in the forum: "I've heard that chord progression, which is it, how can I make it, too?" and then they COPY it and make a song out of it. That's not picking up rules by osmosis...

And I've heard much more unique and creative stuff from people with a good music theory knowledge than from people without music theory knowledge, except Phil Collins... (and I'm sure that he knows some music theory nowadays, too)

that's throwing a huge blanket over a very small slice of the musical artist pie my friend

[vurt]

what i dont understand is why person a not wanting to learn theory upsets person b so much?

It doesn't upset me at all. If person A doesn't want to be educated, that's his or her prerogative. But, when that uneducated person tries to tell the world that he/she is better off not knowing what he/she doesn't know, the only people who can counter that notion are the educated ones. And, unfortunately, it's a widespread misconception that being educated is somehow limited when it comes to music.

bt why bother? if he wants to not learn isnt that up to him?

maybe "upsets" was the wrong word to use, i just dont understand why these threads seem to get more attention than the ones where people are asking actual questions for the most part?

[vurt]

plus with or without music theory knowledge, phil collins is shit.
id rather listen to camels fart.

[Tricky-Loops]

Enough dancing about architecture, where are the examples of something unique and creative that you've made by ignoring all those music theory "rules"?

the thing is, while one may not have any formal music training, surely by listening to music we pick up the rules by osmosis?
also i havnt heard much unique and original by people with all the knowledge either

Nope. What people without any music theory knowledge do is asking here in the forum: "I've heard that chord progression, which is it, how can I make it, too?" and then they COPY it and make a song out of it. That's not picking up rules by osmosis...

And I've heard much more unique and creative stuff from people with a good music theory knowledge than from people without music theory knowledge, except Phil Collins... (and I'm sure that he knows some music theory nowadays, too)

that's throwing a huge blanket over a very small slice of the musical artist pie my friend

Could you elaborate?

[Ecto]

Enough dancing about architecture, where are the examples of something unique and creative that you've made by ignoring all those music theory "rules"?

I only make music for myself at the moment, but here is an example of one who don't:

That's a copout. Yeah, I've never studied art,and that allowed me to paint an image using colors never seen before. But, I won't show it to you because I only paint for myself. Music is to be heard, not talked about, and the proof is always in the pudding.

As for the others that you posted, the first is simply a common variation on a i-v-iv progression (plus the common 7th and 9th note extensions) in F minor - not a single non-harmonic tone to be found in the entire composition. Similar story for the second track (in C minor). So, where exactly is the genius in the chord progressions in either of those pieces?

Look, the fact that you posted two trance tracks with rather generic chord progressions says a lot. It's not uncommon for people just getting into trance to think that there is something totally unique and original about the chord progressions, simply because most trance producers don't know any better. I'll just leave it at that and wish you good luck. Maybe ignorance is bliss.

I make music because i find it pleasing, not because i want to become some kind of blow-up doll. And to say that his tracks are generic, is just stupid. Complexity has many ways of showing itself. And sometimes simplicity is the best.

[cryophonik]

bt why bother? if he wants to not learn isnt that up to him?

Absolutely. But, left uncountered, the "music theory will ruin my creative ability" fallacy will perpetuate even more, and there will be more and more lazy, uneducated musicians out there. Do you really want to live in a world with nothing but SHM to listen to?

[vurt]

bt why bother? if he wants to not learn isnt that up to him?

Absolutely. But, left uncountered, the "music theory will ruin my creative ability" fallacy will perpetuate even more, and there will be more and more lazy, uneducated musicians out there. Do you really want to live in a world with nothing but SHM to listen to?

maybe im lucky, but i dont even know what shm is?