Countdown to Sample Tank 3, with 64 bit support

[mhog]

I'm only comparing what's already on the market.
Kontakt5 is $399.00 except for the one time of year it gets dropped to $199.00
And the no-brainer deal with NI is jumping into Komplete at $499.00
IKM has promotions more often and with the last one TotalStudio3 could be picked up around $85.00 and it included their 64b effects and Amplitube3
No going into any of the other stuff, just simply put, even if part of their studio is still 32b, it's easier to justify the initial cost. Unless you have a DAW that doesn't support a bridge to allow it to work. Hopefully, you got more use out of it than those that just recently bought it. And if your DAW won't let it run, I hope you're making as much noise to them as you are IKM.

It's apple and oranges, because Kontakt is a sort of "factory standard" (like AKAI was in the 90s). Kontakt is a complete and almost universal) sampler. Sampletank, on the contrary, is a rompler (in my opinion the best soft-rompler for quality and usably). The only comparable NI product could be maybe the old "Bandstand" (now discontinued), and ST would win.

Sampletank is "General Midi" oriented, (very) high quality.

[BBFG#]

It's dead for some, it's still alive for others. So far it's working out fine for me, especially for the price. HG Fortune on the other hand, for some reason has periods of refusing to load. Another group of 32b VIs that I've learned that if I wait, they eventually are given away for free. Do I feel burned? Not really, because they were cheap enough anyway, and I feel the same about the current IKM lineup. Not all of the Kontakt libraries have been as cheap nor as usable as what I get out of the IKM lineup for half the cost of one Kontakt library. I bought Novation VStation/BassStation a few years ago, and they're 64b now, doesn't mean I use them any more (and in fact, I've never used the BassStation). Now they're giving it away for buying their device at half the cost I paid for just the software used. Does it make me mad? No, because it had its time and has been replaced easily by comparablly priced VIs.

[BBFG#]

I'm only comparing what's already on the market.
Kontakt5 is $399.00 except for the one time of year it gets dropped to $199.00
And the no-brainer deal with NI is jumping into Komplete at $499.00
IKM has promotions more often and with the last one TotalStudio3 could be picked up around $85.00 and it included their 64b effects and Amplitube3
No going into any of the other stuff, just simply put, even if part of their studio is still 32b, it's easier to justify the initial cost. Unless you have a DAW that doesn't support a bridge to allow it to work. Hopefully, you got more use out of it than those that just recently bought it. And if your DAW won't let it run, I hope you're making as much noise to them as you are IKM.

It's apple and oranges, because Kontakt is a sort of "factory standard" (like AKAI was in the 90s). kontakt is a (complete, almost universal) sampler. Sampletank, on the contrary, is a rompler (in my opinion the best one). The only comparable NI product could be maybe the old "Bandstand" (now discontinued). Not Kontakt.

Sampletank is "General Midi" oriented, (very) high quality.

Not really, it's more like Reds and Goldens (both apples). To believe that K5 is a sampler and that ST is a rompler is to jump into the NI hypsters way of nonthinking. They are fundamentally both romplers.
Granted, there's more third party sets for K5 than ST and because of that alone the quality has to reach a higher standard of sampling quality. But we ought to remember that buying into that ideal is going to run into the hundreds and thousands of dollars, (and btw, only one set of the ST Xpansion sets is General MIdi). I think I saw someone working on a GM set for K5, but get prepared, because it's not cheap.
You also bring up a good a point about Akai.
Once a standard, now more of a reference point (and one of the last samplers).

[donato]

nm

[mhog]

And IKM still has no 64 bit workstation. So that comparison isn't fair. Their sounds are a decade old. They have lied to and treat their customers like shit. They have PREVIEWED a lackluster product with no solid release date or upgrade pricing. In any case, I really wish things would turn around. I used to find their stuff useful. But whatever you say, consumers will vote with their wallet. And judging by the comments here, the product is dead before release in my opinion. They will lose their asses unless they change things drastically and soon. Again, an observation and opinion, but the public has spoken. Good for you if you buy it. Let us know how that goes, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

That is unfair. I guess ST3 has been released because of their customers who requested it (myself included). I am a long time user (bought ST in 2004) and every time I asked for support, they were always kind and disposable. Am I lucky? I don't know. By the way ST2 is still a powerful rompler, besides you can even import WAV, AIFF, SDII, AKAI... you have 32 effects, 16 parts, loop sync etc. And, above all, very CPU friendly. Even for free (the player). Are there other free products like that? With Kontakt player you can do nothing, for instance.

It comes without a bloody dongle and the sounds are rather inspiring when composing, either tunes or soundtracks (Miroslav expansion is not so bad). Regarding the transfer fee, well... it is not IK exclusive shit, some others ask even 50$ for license transfer!

I wished ST3 was just the same GUI (only double sized) and 64 bit, not this new "three pages" one. The "30 gb" hype... I don't know... it can be impressive for newbies, not for the owners of Kontakt, Nexus, Omnisphere, Alchemy etc. In my opinion, ST3 is an exellent product for the ones who need high quality "bread and butter" sounds. This is its aim, and the price is rather fair. For long time users (the ones who paid it 350€), an upgrade should be in the 49-99€ range. If more, I won't do it.

[erikbojerik]

The focus on apps for mobile devices is understandable; Apple is making more money from iDevices than from laptops, desktops and software that's for sure.

But along with this comes a degradation in sonic quality. 44kHz/16bit is the norm in the iMobile world and you don't need sounds better than that if all you're going to do is listen to the MP3 with your ear buds, or in your car with the windows rolled down and subwoofer jacked.

I read recently an interview with John Petrucci after he listened in the studio to the final master of the new Dream Theater disc, in all its full high-res glory, and lamenting the fact that no one else was ever going to hear what he was hearing.

But there are those of us, musicians and producers alike, who DO still strive to get that full-glory quality whenever possible (and a few bands continue to provide it), and for us it is all about sonic quality. A sonic quality not possible with apps that seek to minimize CPU usage and storage space, i.e. a quality not possible on any iMobile platform. If you start with good samples as the foundation, then even if your GUI is not the most sexy thing out there, if the functionality is there then creative people will find a way to use quality in creative ways.

There is definitely a place for things like ST that could own some of the territory between, say, a cheezy 44/16 choir sample and paying for studio time to rehearse and record a full choir.

[mhog]

To believe that K5 is a sampler and that ST is a rompler is to jump into the NI hypsters way of nonthinking. They are fundamentally both romplers.
Granted, there's more third party sets for K5 than ST and because of that alone the quality has to reach a higher standard of sampling quality.

[rtucker55]

And IKM still has no 64 bit workstation. So that comparison isn't fair. Their sounds are a decade old. They have lied to and treat their customers like shit. They have PREVIEWED a lackluster product with no solid release date or upgrade pricing. In any case, I really wish things would turn around. I used to find their stuff useful. But whatever you say, consumers will vote with their wallet. And judging by the comments here, the product is dead before release in my opinion. They will lose their asses unless they change things drastically and soon. Again, an observation and opinion, but the public has spoken. Good for you if you buy it. Let us know how that goes, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

That is unfair. I guess ST3 has been released because of their customers who requested it (myself included).

That is my main issue. They have Not Released it and they will Not say when they will release it. Sure some poor reps that were stuck facing the public at NAMM gave an March/April 2014 time frame but what else could they say. I really do feel for those people placed in a position like that by their management.

They also will Not release the official map price or the upgrade prices and will not until they are good and ready.

When will people face the fact that ST3 does Not yet exist as an available product. It was Hyped as the 'Final Countdown' for NAMM but I'm feeling like it is more the 'Final Curtain'.

[mhog]

The focus on apps for mobile devices is understandable; Apple is making more money from iDevices than from laptops, desktops and software that's for sure.

But along with this comes a degradation in sonic quality. 44kHz/16bit is the norm in the iMobile world and you don't need sounds better than that if all you're going to do is listen to the MP3 with your ear buds, or in your car with the windows rolled down and subwoofer jacked.

I read recently an interview with John Petrucci after he listened in the studio to the final master of the new Dream Theater disc, in all its full high-res glory, and lamenting the fact that no one else was ever going to hear what he was hearing.

But there are those of us, musicians and producers alike, who DO still strive to get that full-glory quality whenever possible (and a few bands continue to provide it), and for us it is all about sonic quality. A sonic quality not possible with apps that seek to minimize CPU usage and storage space, i.e. a quality not possible on any iMobile platform. If you start with good samples as the foundation, then even if your GUI is not the most sexy thing out there, if the functionality is there then creative people will find a way to use quality in creative ways.

There is definitely a place for things like ST that could own some of the territory between, say, a cheezy 44/16 choir sample and paying for studio time to rehearse and record a full choir.

OT: I guess I am the only one who buys 24 bit samples (for Kontakt) and convert them to 16 bit ncw in order to save space on HD?... In my opinion the real "hype" thing is this "24 bit quality" for samplers. Infact: (1) the new frontier of emulation is the physical modelled synthesis (few kbytes, great results); (2) 24 bit can be useful for audio recordings (choirs, real instruments etc. before the dithering), but for the samplers?... the 44/16 standard is more than enough, IMO. The rest is just a "bigger is better" useless syndrome (infact no human being can hear the difference between 24bit and 16bit, since we are not bats).

[BBFG#]

I definitely feel a difference between 16 1nd 24 bit samples, even if I can't truly hear it.

[donato]

I definitely feel a difference between 16 1nd 24 bit samples, even if I can't truly hear it.

what?

[mhog]

I definitely feel a difference between 16 1nd 24 bit samples, even if I can't truly hear it.

it is called "dynamic autosuggestion range" (aka "placebo effect")

[ShawnG]

Not really, it's more like Reds and Goldens (both apples). To believe that K5 is a sampler and that ST is a rompler is to jump into the NI hypsters way of nonthinking. They are fundamentally both romplers.
Granted, there's more third party sets for K5 than ST and because of that alone the quality has to reach a higher standard of sampling quality. But we ought to remember that buying into that ideal is going to run into the hundreds and thousands of dollars, (and btw, only one set of the ST Xpansion sets is General MIdi). I think I saw someone working on a GM set for K5, but get prepared, because it's not cheap.
You also bring up a good a point about Akai.
Once a standard, now more of a reference point (and one of the last samplers).

Wow.

I agree that many (myself included) treat Kontakt like a Rompler, but jesus, have you bothered to check under the hood? Kontakt is one of the most deep and impressive music programs ever created, let alone just a sampler. maybe you're one of the ones hung up on not being able to record audio directly within the program, but it is a sampler nonetheless. Sampletank is a rompler, a closed system, and one of the greatest bang for the buck items in my arsenal, given that I bought it for cheap in a group buy. Works great in my 64 bit host too.

You guys may want to direct at least some of your hate towards your DAW developer, if you've got one that hasn't provided some sort of bridge for 32 bit plugins. they took the cowards way out and decided that they didn't want to provide support for your old plugs, just to save themselves some support headaches at your expense.

[sodbuster-ca]

...Can't say the showing was a must see for most either, I walked up to it and played with it with no one looking on for about an hour. Everyone else there seem to be absorded into iThings...

Yeah, that was my impression (& surprise) as well. In the three days I attended the show, I must have walked passed the IKM booth 10 or 12 times and when I glanced towards the ST3 display there was usually no one even looking at it. I did see two Reporters for a Japanese Music Magazine interviewing the IK rep who spoke Japanese. They were taking photos & asking lots of questions. Who knows, ST3 may be popular in Japan.

IKM had plenty of traffic/interest in their "iSTUFF". If it pays the bills, then more power to them. (It kinda' reminds me of CREATIVE/EMU/ENSONIQ in that the consumer products overshadowed the "pro" gear).

When SampleTank was first released, IK had a stage in their booth with an artist/presenter doing hourly demonstrations to large crowds. Gone are those days.

SampleTank 3 (Mac/Win) appears to now be a secondary or tertiary product line. Maybe that explains the long wait.

[mhog]

ST3 is actually an "iSTUFF", only 10 years before (meaning: in 2024 on ipad 15 via 64 to 256 bit bridge)