Countdown to Sample Tank 3, with 64 bit support

[sodbuster-ca]

...To believe that K5 is a sampler and that ST is a rompler is to jump into the NI hypsters way of nonthinking. They are fundamentally both romplers...

..maybe you're one of the ones hung up on not being able to record audio directly within the program, but it is a sampler nonetheless...

Umm...no! That IS the definition of a SAMPLER. That is, being able to RECORD directly into the instrument, save the recording and play back the recording on-call.

My EMU EmulatorX 3 is a sampler.
My Creamware/Sonic Core STS5000 is a sampler.
My AKAI S2000 is a sampler.
My AKAI S612 is a sampler.
My Roland S-550 is a sampler.
My Roland S-220 is a sampler.

My Kontakt 5 is a Sample play back instrument (often referred to as a "ROMPLER"). Granted it has very extensive sound shaping capabilities but it is not a sampler. As far as audio is concerned, (by definition) sampling is the act of converting audio sound waves into digital data. Think about that term that everyone uses; "SAMPLING RATE".

[BBFG#]

Not really, it's more like Reds and Goldens (both apples). To believe that K5 is a sampler and that ST is a rompler is to jump into the NI hypsters way of nonthinking. They are fundamentally both romplers.
Granted, there's more third party sets for K5 than ST and because of that alone the quality has to reach a higher standard of sampling quality. But we ought to remember that buying into that ideal is going to run into the hundreds and thousands of dollars, (and btw, only one set of the ST Xpansion sets is General MIdi). I think I saw someone working on a GM set for K5, but get prepared, because it's not cheap.
You also bring up a good a point about Akai.
Once a standard, now more of a reference point (and one of the last samplers).

Wow.

I agree that many (myself included) treat Kontakt like a Rompler, but jesus, have you bothered to check under the hood? Kontakt is one of the most deep and impressive music programs ever created, let alone just a sampler. maybe you're one of the ones hung up on not being able to record audio directly within the program, but it is a sampler nonetheless. Sampletank is a rompler, a closed system, and one of the greatest bang for the buck items in my arsenal, given that I bought it for cheap in a group buy. Works great in my 64 bit host too.

You guys may want to direct at least some of your hate towards your DAW developer, if you've got one that hasn't provided some sort of bridge for 32 bit plugins. they took the cowards way out and decided that they didn't want to provide support for your old plugs, just to save themselves some support headaches at your expense.

A rompler, by definition is something that plays samples but does not sample itself. True, a rompler is by definition a closed system which can only read from it's own memory, but as someone else pointed out, you can load samples into either of them. So then, we're only talking about the processing available after that fact. And with K5, that's often dependent on the person supplying the samples as well. Fundamentally, they are the same and neither actually sample, which makes them both closer to being a rompler. But more so, they are both simply sample players.

And yeah, I think the DAW's unable to use these 32b and not be backwards compatible like most strive for, is as perfidious as the claims against the software. Especially when the software is well known to be used in such considerable numbers.

[mhog]

vintage samplers: hardware gear which included recording capability.
modern samplers: software instruments which can import and deeply modify samples.

Kontakt is a modern sampler, because nowadays there is no need to record sources directly into the sampler anymore (once it was a question of economy: DAT/ADAT/floppy disk era and pc maximum RAM = 128 mb). Sampletank remains a rompler, because it can import but just a few sample formats (wav, akai) with no triggering "note per note" capabilities. Zones are automatically "stretched". Besides, modern samplers' formats are convertible (e.g. I can convert Halion patches into Kontakt and viceversa). In ST case, it is not possible, neither "from" nor "to"- Let's say I created a nice kontakt patch and want it to be played on sampletank: no way. A rompler (à la Nexus, Omnisphere, Alchemy and such: only more "General Midi/bread and butter" oriented).

[BBFG#]

vintage samplers: hardware gear which included recording capability.
modern samplers: software instruments which can import and deeply modify samples.

Kontakt is a modern sampler, because nowadays there is no need to record sources directly into the sampler anymore (once it was a question of economy: DAT/ADAT/floppy disk era and pc maximum RAM = 128 mb). Sampletank remains a rompler, because it can import but just a few sample formats (wav, akai) with no triggering "note per note" capabilities. Zones are automatically "stretched". Besides, modern samplers' formats are convertible (e.g. I can convert Halion patches into Kontakt and viceversa). In ST case, it is not possible, neither "from" nor "to"- Let's say I created a nice kontakt patch and want it to be played on sampletank: no way. A rompler (à la Nexus, Omnisphere, Alchemy and such: only more "General Midi/bread and butter" oriented).

That makes it a 'sample processor' then, not a sampler. The fact that it can take other samples from other formats makes it a convertor/translator. Just because it can do more formats doesn't make it something it's not. Neither does it elevate it above the same classification as ST. That would be akin to saying that only three or more oscillator VAs are synths. And no matter how much you disagree, until it actually samples, it's not a sampler.

[mhog]

I understand what you mean, but "samplers" as in the 90s (Akai series etc.)... do not exist anymore. Because of computer technology, I guess. Nowadays an iphone is 100x more powerful than a 2000$ 90s Akai gear. For "realtime sampling manipulation" there are tons of apps out there, or even native plugins within the daws (see Ableton Live, Propellerhead Reason), the various granular plugins, loopers etc.. But, yes: I understand the retro-nostalgia.

[sodbuster-ca]

vintage samplers: hardware gear which included recording capability.
modern samplers: software instruments which can import and deeply modify samples.

Kontakt is a modern sampler, because nowadays there is no need to record sources directly into the sampler anymore (once it was a question of economy: DAT/ADAT/floppy disk era and pc maximum RAM = 128 mb). Sampletank remains a rompler, because it can import but just a few sample formats (wav, akai) with no triggering "note per note" capabilities. Zones are automatically "stretched". Besides, modern samplers' formats are convertible (e.g. I can convert Halion patches into Kontakt and viceversa). In ST case, it is not possible, neither "from" nor "to"- Let's say I created a nice kontakt patch and want it to be played on sampletank: no way. A rompler (à la Nexus, Omnisphere, Alchemy and such: only more "General Midi/bread and butter" oriented).

Dude, you need get a technical dictionary and look up Audio Sampling, or Audio-to-Digital Conversion. "SAMPLER" was coined as a musical instrument based on the technical definition of Audio Sampling or A-to-D Conversion. That's what Audio Sampling is: Recording Audio Sound Waves and Converting them to Digital Data. No Recording, then No Sampling. In my post above I tried to provide a simple explanation for the origin of the term "SAMPLER". It really is a very specific technical term. A "Sampler" instrument records audio, stores the audio and plays back the audio on-call. Of course, Samplers do much more than that but to be a true Sampler, it must at least do those three things. My AKAI S612 is an example of that.

You can't just make up your own definition for something that has already been defined. Well, you can but you're likely to have many people strongly disagree with you.

Not to belabour the point but none of those so-called software "SAMPLERS" record audio directly because that function is redundant to every DAW and audio Editor on the market today (along with your hardware audio interface). Recording audio and trimming Start-End points is redundant Functionality (read, Lines of Code) that increases costs but doesn't add much in the way of value since it can be easily done in other software that we own.

The term "ROMPLER" was coined to differentiate between hardware Samplers and hardware Sample Play Back instruments (Korg M1 being one of the first ROMPLERs). The early ROMPLERs stored and played back samples directly from ROM or EEPROMs.

The modern software Sample Play Back instruments store the samples on the hard drive and play them back from RAM after streaming from the hard drive. Because of that, they should be called "RAMPLERs".

[mhog]

I guess the confusion is because these terms come from the old hardware 80s and 90s gear ("ROMplers" from the Roland D-50, "Samplers", from the old Fairlight, Mirage etc.).

Nowadays, "sampler" is a software "sample player" with import and deep manipulation capabilities (Kontakt, Halion, EXS24 etc); "rompler" is a softsynth based on samples (omnisphere, nexus etc.). Just this. Sorry for the ABC.

But, yes: "sampler" is a wrong term for Kontakt in a "retro-nostalgic" perspective.

[BBFG#]

I understand what you mean, but "samplers" as in the 90s (Akai series etc.)... do not exist anymore. Because of computer technology, I guess. Nowadays an iphone is 100x more powerful than a 2000$ 90s Akai gear. For "realtime sampling manipulation" there are tons of apps out there, or even native plugins within the daws (see Ableton Live, Propellerhead Reason), the various granular plugins, loopers etc.. But, yes: I understand the retro-nostalgia.

Sure they exist. And ITB. And this is the one thing that keeps me from calling those that don't - a 'sampler'.
I have four VIs that load samples and do more processing than K5 or ST2. But like you, I don't have any of the actual ITB samplers that are available.

[BBFG#]

Oh, and the term, 'rompler' first came around with the original Emu Proteus, then the term seemed to run backwards to include those others. Especially after EMU decided to add effects and better filters to the next versions.

... yes: "sampler" is a wrong term for Kontakt.
It is misleading and states it has a feature it doesn't have and never did.

[mhog]

I don't think so. I guess it comes from the D-50 (Roland). It was the first "rompler" (1987) and my first one, too... while my very first sampler was called "Mirage" by Ensoniq (I don't think it exist anymore). Many years ago. My last "sampler" was a board for the Korg Trinity (1999), which recordings had to be saved on a Iomega Jaz... "Retro-Nostalgia"...

[sodbuster-ca]

I understand what you mean, but "samplers" as in the 90s (Akai series etc.)... do not exist anymore. Because of computer technology, I guess. Nowadays an iphone is 100x more powerful than a 2000$ 90s Akai gear. For "realtime sampling manipulation" there are tons of apps out there, or even native plugins within the daws (see Ableton Live, Propellerhead Reason), the various granular plugins, loopers etc.. But, yes: I understand the retro-nostalgia.

No, you don't understand. It's not about retro-nostalgia, or the past or the present. It's about Technology.

It doesn't matter whether its old technology, present technology or future technology.

Technology has specific definitions.

In the world of audio, Sampling IS recording audio and converting it digital data (1's & 0's to be more specific). (The data are captured at some predetermined rate; 44.1k, 88.2k, 96k Sampling Rates, etc.). That's where the term SAMPLER comes from.

In the world of music CD's, a Sampler might be a CD with songs from Various Artists.

[BBFG#]

I don't think so. I guess it comes from the D-50 (Roland). It was the first "rompler" (1987) and my first one, too... while my very first sampler was called "Mirage" by Ensoniq (I don't think it exist anymore). Many years ago. My last "sampler" was a board for the Korg Trinity (1999), which recordings had to be saved on a Iomega Jaz... "Retro-Nostalgia"...

The Mirage was a sampler, albeit only 8bit. But none of the others called them self a rompler and in fact hated that others did after Emu declared their machines as such.

Your neo-description of samplers would also include wavetable synths otherwise.
And that makes all the different forms of synthesis, meaningless.

[mhog]

It is a question of "generations". I bought my first sampler in 1985. Today Kontakt is called "software sampler" by everyone, even if it does not sample. Peace
--> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan12/a ... takt-5.htm

[BBFG#]

No, it's a question of accepting the fact over the common misnomer.

[Ben H]

And yet some people are too pig-headed to acknowledge that the meanings of words can change with time.

Instead they jump on every thread and hijack it with the same old tired, re-hashed arguments because it doesn't fit their own strict dictionary definition.

E.g "gay" does not mean that a person is simply happy anymore.

Yawn.