The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[Ingonator]

BTW if you click at the checkbox left to the "Depth" for "Keytrack" in the "Key Control" (color changes from grey to blue) the automatic LFO pplay is deavtivated and you could only add it by Aftertoucjh if you like.

This is a screenshot for a configuration to trigger the LFO only when aftertouch is applied (routed to Cutoff in this case):




Ingo

[Cyoon]

looks kinda ugly

[trusampler]

Anyone know if Bitwig has realtime swing and quantize options for midi instruments?
Haven't saw anything on this yet..

[ThomasHelzle]

looks kinda ugly

Yeah, it does that.
And since it outputs Midi Data, you get beautifully stepped modulations
But even the other LFOs that directly modulate parameters are a pain to set up IMO. I don't know if it changed in Live 9 much, but in 8 I found it way too complicated.

No matter. I just don't think M4L will ever be as seamlessly integrated as the BWS modular system.

Just wanted to give some more feedback on "complex instruments":
Today I tried out the presets that use exactly the techniques we talked about above, either combining multiple instruments with an "Instrument Layer" or a "XY-Instrument" Container. There are many interesting things to find there, from simply stacking multiple Polysynths for fatness to combining them with FM-4 or even spicing up sampled instruments.
As soon as you start thinking about this as ONE synth with as many oscillators as you want, using whatever internal or external module you see fit, plugging an arpeggiator in one layer but not another, all controlled by the macro knobs if you want and with included optional modulation etc. you get something very very very flexible and deep.

I'm pretty sure we will see some quite amazing sound packs come out for BWS in the not too distant future

Cheers,

Tom

[Ingonator]

looks kinda ugly

Yeah, it does that.
And since it outputs Midi Data, you get beautifully stepped modulations
But even the other LFOs that directly modulate parameters are a pain to set up IMO. I don't know if it changed in Live 9 much, but in 8 I found it way too complicated.

No matter. I just don't think M4L will ever be as seamlessly integrated as the BWS modular system.

What do you mean? First it works ats it should (in that case adding LFO Modulation for Cutoff with aftertouch) and second it is very simple in that case if you know how to handle some basic stuff in Live (FWIW this is a 3rd party synth instead of a built-in one).

For complex routings i also got MuTools MUX which could sue VST plugins as modules.
That way i was able to create a layer of 2 TAL U-NO-LX instances with detune control (in the MUX macro controls) and FXs. The whole setup including the synth patches) could be saved as a MUX preset.

screenshot (macro controls):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... 0Layer.png


Ingo

[ThomasHelzle]

looks kinda ugly

Yeah, it does that.
And since it outputs Midi Data, you get beautifully stepped modulations
But even the other LFOs that directly modulate parameters are a pain to set up IMO. I don't know if it changed in Live 9 much, but in 8 I found it way too complicated.

No matter. I just don't think M4L will ever be as seamlessly integrated as the BWS modular system.

What do you mean? First it works ats it should (in that case adding LFO Modulation for Cutoff with aftertouch) and second it is very simple in that case if you know how to handle some basic stuff in Live (FWIW this is a 3rd party synth instead of a built-in one).


Ingo

Never mind

Cheers,

Tom

[The Mantra]

I agree with Tom.
This isn't a shot at M4l, Its a technical marvel. But I've had stability problems associated with max devices, The M4l load times and separate load screen is jarring and relatively slow compared to native plugins.

Max is very tightly integrated in live, but its not the same as what BW has which is naturally modular.

Its like the difference between a great boob job and great natural tits.
There will always be a difference.

[tooneba]

M4L covers deepest programming capability in the market. And I also agree it may be too bloated for simple task and this causes resource issue.

[virtualmark]

Its like the difference between a great boob job and great natural tits.
There will always be a difference.

I think that sums it up well!

[Ingonator]

I The M4l load times and separate load screen is jarring and relatively slow compared to native plugins.

Just did a measurement: Inserting the M4L LFo device took 9 seconds including loading Max for the first time. If Max is already loaded replacing with another M4L device does not take longer than a native device.


Ingo

[sl1914]

Comparing BWS to Live9 + M4L is one of the things about BWS demo that interests me most.
Adding extra LFOs, envelope followers etc. can be done already using M4L, but are there clear usability advantages? Will find out in March.

[pdxindy]

Actually, I would much rather have a built-in LFO device in Live...

To add the LFO, you have to launch M4L... then the LFO is always running, even if Live is not playing. This means that whatever parameter it is modulating is modulating even when Play is halted. It's bothersome. The LFO does not feel like a built-in Live device. M4L still feels like a not quite fully integrated add-on.

I dont see this as an actual problem as long a the LFO only has an effect on the sound when i play a note (which is the case). In the advanced options ("Key Control") of that standard Max4Live LFO you could also add aftertouch and/or Modwheel modulation which is great for synths that don't offer this.


Ingo

It could be a problem if you want the LFO to retrigger with the note and start at a certain phase.

Exactly... Also, try adjusting a parameter when the parameter next to it is moving. On some synths that is constantly over-riding the numeric display and you have to turn the LFO off to set any parameter numerically.

Then try changing the actual parameter that the LFO is on. You have no idea where it was before the LFO went on it. Remove the LFO and the parameter lives in whatever position it was when the LFO was deleted.

I'm glad to have M4L. It is very powerful and users are doing some fantastic stuff with it (well beyond what Bitwig can do)... and maybe somewhere down the road Ableton and Cycling will have it fully integrated, but right now it is rather clumsy in some core aspects compared to the integrated modulation system shown in Bitwig.

[Ingonator]

Didn't someone mention that the modulation system does only works properly with the built-in plugins? Please correct me if i am wrong.
In the corresponding video at the Bitwig website they have only used built-in plugins.

My example used a 3rd party VST synth plugin for using the M4L modulation device,

Actually this system in Bitwig would be quite useless for me if it doesn't work properly with 3rd party plugins.


Ingo

[Cyoon]

besides that the real modular system hasn`t been shown yet or demonstrated since it will be a v2 feature..

[pdxindy]

The thing with Bitwig that is not clear, is how well the LFO works with a 3rd party plugin... with a Bitwig instrument, the parameter range is visible with the little modulation ring around each parameter. How will you see it and set it in a 3rd party instrument like say Diva?