KVR Audio

cloudspine · Post by **cloudspine** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:14 pm

BTW, I know I owe you an email. My apologies!

Hey, no problem 'bout that

japut_99 · Post by **japut_99** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:14 pm

Instead of just mentioning the time sig. Can't we have some examples of how you guys go about counting 11/8 or 15/8 etc. I think that would give a better example of what kind of values your quarternotes recieve and more so what the sigs mean for those interested. 7/8, 5/4 all very infectious counts all be it hard to tap your foot too. I think this could help those interested in the sigs as well as those interested in poly-rhythym.

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:17 pm

To make it "sound normal", I quite commonly do polymetric stuff by putting an odd-time part in a 4/4 song for rotating syncopation...

http://www.markleford.com/music/files/0 ... ATcell.mp3
http://www.markleford.com/music/files/0 ... sefunk.mp3
http://www.markleford.com/music/files/0 ... sunami.mp3
http://www.markleford.com/music/files/m ... minute.mp3

- m

PugFace · Post by **PugFace** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:37 pm

I have two ways of working:

1) Develop a backing about a time signature, then compose the lead hook on top. For me, this is the easiest but i found it can lead to repeatable results.
2) I have tried writing classical symphonic music with only what is in my head and fingers. Then readjust the time signature so that it matches the beat lines in cubase. However this i find difficult to do.

In an earlier reply Rush was mentioned who are quite famous for their timings. To me it is Rush's essense sound. Also, the group YES did a lot of mucking about with changing the signature and it gave them their characteristic contemporary jazz rock sound.

I think their is a lot of scope of experimentation in the host software with signature changes. But no hosts seem to allow for signature change within song.

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:39 pm

japut_99 wrote:Instead of just mentioning the time sig. Can't we have some examples of how you guys go about counting 11/8 or 15/8 etc.

Generally it breaks down to groups of 2 and 3, depending on where your accents fall. A common 11/8, for example, is almost like a waltz that cheats the last group in the measure:

1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2

Speak the numbers out loud and repeat. Then experiment with putting a pronounced accent on the 1's.

Then, to make it sound more "natural", you can give the rhythm a pseudo "backbeat" by alternating a kick and snare on the accented ones, and use a hihat or ride on the rest of the beats.

Once you get used to that, you can play around with changing your pattern around at the final bar of a phrase:

1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2-3, 1-2-3

You could turn that into a fill by making the last two groups of 3 into a tom fill, with the upbeat "and"s, too: 1and-2and-3and, 1and-2and-3and!

Any help?

- m

torhan · Post by **torhan** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:42 pm

Similarly, for instance, Rush's Subdivisions, could be counted (in 7/8 ) as:

1-2, 1-2, 1-2-3

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:45 pm

i use "vurt" time,my host is always set around 30 - 40 bpm and then i just play howver it happens it happens
dont even follow time in the conceptual sense for running your day by

japut_99 · Post by **japut_99** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:58 pm

Excellent examples on 7/8 11/8 etc. I was really interested in some of the stuff that isn't as familar like I thought I saw mention of 21/4. That seemed interesting as long as you stayed under say 60bpm. I think a two minute piece would kill ya. Excuse me if I'm wrong as I'm sure their are more knowledgeable on these matters but isn't changing time signatures just changing the value you give your quarternotes?

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:59 pm

PugFace wrote:I think their is a lot of scope of experimentation in the host software with signature changes. But no hosts seem to allow for signature change within song.

I could swear Logic allowed this, but alas, don't have it to check anymore. Did SX2 not allow this either? I'd have to look for that one.

Devon

torhan · Post by **torhan** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:01 pm

Sonar allows time signature changes...or am I missing the point?

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:01 pm

japut_99 wrote:Excellent examples on 7/8 11/8 etc. I was really interested in some of the stuff that isn't as familar like I thought I saw mention of 21/4. That seemed interesting as long as you stayed under say 60bpm. I think a two minute piece would kill ya. Excuse me if I'm wrong as I'm sure their are more knowledgeable on these matters but isn't changing time signatures just changing the value you give your quarternotes?

That was me who mentioned 21/4. The first number is how many of the second number you have in your time division. I had 21 quarter notes per 'riff' section. If it's x/8, we're taking timing in 1/8th notes, not 1/4 notes. The riff fit no other way though, but once I set it to 21/4, it fit perfectly in the song.

Devon

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:02 pm

torhan wrote:Sonar allows time signature changes...or am I missing the point?

Meaning measure 1-8 is 4/4, then 9-16 is 3/4, the 17-24 is 7/8, etc, and it changes the signature as the song plays.

Devon

Scot Solida · Post by **Scot Solida** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:02 pm

DevonB wrote:
PugFace wrote:I think their is a lot of scope of experimentation in the host software with signature changes. But no hosts seem to allow for signature change within song.
I could swear Logic allowed this, but alas, don't have it to check anymore. Did SX2 not allow this either? I'd have to look for that one.

Devon

I am sure Logic does, though I have not checked it out yet (new to Logic

). SX and Nuendo allow for it, as does Sonar. You can drop in new signatures in their tempo maps.

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:03 pm

PugFace wrote:I think their is a lot of scope of experimentation in the host software with signature changes. But no hosts seem to allow for signature change within song.

SONAR allows for this!

(and for the record, I must admit to growing up listening to Rush...

)

- m

torhan · Post by **torhan** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:03 pm

DevonB wrote:
torhan wrote:Sonar allows time signature changes...or am I missing the point?
Meaning measure 1-8 is 4/4, then 9-16 is 3/4, the 17-24 is 7/8, etc, and it changes the signature as the song plays.

Devon

Yes-- that's what I meant!!

Anybody using weird time signatures?