How to repeat phrases (2 times or n times) ?

[BlackWinny]

Hum... Maybe I have missed something...

How do we repeat phrases (2 or n times) in the equivalent of these symbols for "double", "end", "Begin repeat", "End repeat", "Begin and end repeat" (sorry I don't know their English name) ?



What I'm missing in almost all my compositions is mainly "Begin repeat" and "End repeat". I haven't found the way to emulate them in the inspectors.

[dsan@mail.com]

This is a good idea BlackWinny.

But one problem I foresee is that if you have track one to repeat at bar 7 you will need to set up the other tracks to do the same else the song may not play properly.

Having said that this would be great for setting a track to repeat while the song moves on. For example, let's say I want a guitar (or bass or other instrument)to play a specific riff for 12 measures while the piano track plays 12 measure of melody and the harmony track plays chords.

I think you are on to something here and I hope Attila can develop the concept.

BTW - to my knowledge you have given the correct names in English, as far as I know them; "Begin repeat, end repeat, etc.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[BlackWinny]

For example, let's say I want a guitar (or bass or other instrument)to play a specific riff for 12 measures while the piano track plays 12 measure of melody and the harmony track plays chords.

In addition to the universal use of it in classic (and for me in "neoclassic") works, I have met exactly the situation you evoke in two tunes I recently did in jazzy styles having a guitar, a piano, a drum, a trumpet and a double bass instruments. Exactly as you tell in your example! One of these two scores being quite complex I have had to make a total of 180 repeats for the drum pattern, a total of 120 repeats (80 + 40) for the double bass which had two riffs, and a total of 60 repeats for the guitar (the rest being variations for these instruments, all this was around a long mood solo of the piano). An amazing time spent to repeat, repeat, repeat... Ghost copies are of course useful, but only for short number of repetitions, because for many repetitions it leads to a very very very long score (visually but also on the disk), a way to have a function "Begin repeat" and "End repeat" would have enormously simplified the writing of the composition and the aspect of the final score.

A request for the to do list, Attila ?

[tonedef71]

I think the simplest implementation of this would involve a special pair of repeat markers (or some sort of designation) in the time line (or perhaps we need another line along with the time line and chord line). The repeat instructions would have to be followed by every track in the composition.

The repeat markers could be configurable with their own inspectors; I would envision one would want to be able to specify the number of times to repeat (setting this value to zero could be used as the mechanism for removing and/or turning off the repeat).

Other configurable repeat marker-type capabilities would be "Coda", "Fine", "Segno", "da capo al Coda", "dal segno al Coda", etc.



Yikes!

[dsan@mail.com]

I'll say one thing about this group - you guys sure are thinkers

With all the features Attila has thrown in to RC, and all he plans to, this is going to be one most powerful music software! No doubt.

Can't wait till he gets it to VST 3.5 with per note expression tools.

(Just kidding Attila Well, sorta )

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[BlackWinny]

A very, very good solution, tonedef!

Surely not easy to fully implement but by doing it (and release it) step by step as a progressive subtask in the release plans it would be probably the best solution.

[themixtape]

All great suggestions. In the meantime, why not just use the Structure Inspector to build (and repeat) your sections? That's what it's for!

[BlackWinny]

All great suggestions. In the meantime, why not just use the Structure Inspector to build (and repeat) your sections? That's what it's for!

Yes, in the meantime it is the method I have used. Simply when we have many repetitions it becomes quite quickly fastidious. That's why we suggest a new feature for future releases (not urgent, simply to add to the to do list).

[musicdevelopments]

Interesting suggestions! In its simplest form (and this will definitely work when the idea tool is rewritten and presented on the main workspace) any tracks could be made just a few beats or bars, and everything in that track is repeated until the end. This would be easy to add to the program. Maybe this could be done much earlier than v3. More sophisticated repetitions are more work to implement and I am sure it would make usage more confusing. I have to think about that.

[BlackWinny]

Interesting suggestions! In its simplest form (and this will definitely work when the idea tool is rewritten and presented on the main workspace) any tracks could be made just a few beats or bars, and everything in that track is repeated until the end. This would be easy to add to the program. Maybe this could be done much earlier than v3. More sophisticated repetitions are more work to implement and I am sure it would make usage more confusing. I have to think about that.

You're the best, Attila.

I'm sure that if you walk on the desert, on horseback or not, everywhere you put your foot the grass begins to grow!

[dsan@mail.com]

When using the Structure Inspector to build new lines it becomes problematic due to screen space and having to scroll down the timeline. With some of the compositions, especially those of length like BlackWinny elaborated, it is easy to lose perspective of the time line.

At one time Attila had the timeline in a vertical stack; allowing only so many measures in the first before moving to another below, where one would also stack the tracks inside the lines. This method worked well for me as I was able to create a standard pattern of say 8 measures then scroll vertically to the next 8 measures, etc.

It just seemed easier for me to keep my place in the song.

I have sorta got used to the horizontal scroll but often find my self hunting for a particular passage instead of easily moving to it. I realize it's all in what one gets used to, yet still long for days of ole'

I cannot imagine what BlackWinny must be experiencing with excess of 100 repeats! Holy Moley! His scroll must be a mile long with that number of measures.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[BlackWinny]

When using the Structure Inspector to build new lines it becomes problematic due to screen space and having to scroll down the timeline. With some of the compositions, especially those of length like BlackWinny elaborated, it is easy to lose perspective of the time line.

At one time Attila had the timeline in a vertical stack; allowing only so many measures in the first before moving to another below, where one would also stack the tracks inside the lines. This method worked well for me as I was able to create a standard pattern of say 8 measures then scroll vertically to the next 8 measures, etc.

It just seemed easier for me to keep my place in the song.

I have sorta got used to the horizontal scroll but often find my self hunting for a particular passage instead of easily moving to it. I realize it's all in what one gets used to, yet still long for days of ole'

I cannot imagine what BlackWinny must be experiencing with excess of 100 repeats! Holy Moley! His scroll must be a mile long with that number of measures.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

Endless!

Like a day without evening...


And to manage to get your bearings in such a score it's like have a walk in the sand dunes of the desert without any milestone... they all seem absolutely identical in a never ending journey though they are somewhat different each other !

In order to correctly synchronize my instruments, I had to take notes in a notepad to identify some special parts...

[musicdevelopments]

I understand how painful this could be.
Would the simple solution described above help? E.g. when you can limit the track length to 2 bars and that will be repeated.
Or you could say this track is 6 bars, start playing from bar 1 and repeat the last two bars until the end? So you could set a length and a repeat start position. I am just thinking what could be added quickly.

[BlackWinny]

I have used the structure inspector, to add new lines, new lines, new lines, new lines, new lines... but it adds only empty new lines. So after a good number of empty new lines I had to paste, paste, paste, paste, paste... then count, count, count, count, count... to verify like an accountant at work.


And that fastidious work at several places of the score.

In fact a solution that I would have liked to use in the structure inspector was the ability to duplicate the totality of a line with all its content by a menu "copy the line with its content" followed by a menu "insert the copy before this line" or "insert the copy after this line" in the structure inspector. It would have probably helped me a lot.


(PS: a third menu called "replace this line by the copy" would be great too...)

[dsan@mail.com]

Hi Attila,
Thanks for the quick reply!

Personally, this is a feature I would rather you spend some time thinking about and implement when ready. I think this is a complex feature that will require much thought about the best ways to handle; depending on your plans of course.

Your suggestion is a good one; to be able to repeat a prescribed number of bars before moving to the next part; however, I am curious.

Will this be repeatable at intervals within the song structure? For example, at bar 4, set repeat to bar 1, 3 repeats then move to bar 5, play to bar 10 and repeat back to bar 5 for 2 repeats, jump to bar 11 and play through to end.

I also like the idea of being able to repeat a track while another track plays through (or repeats within also.). Is it possible to set your scenario to each track?

I think this is all very complex, may not even be doable (not that I AT ALL doubt your skills - master coder extraordinaire that you are ).

Thanks for thinking of us Attila and making the effort!

Happy Musiking!
dsan