Fishing for thoughts on dense music

[The_Hidden_Goose]

@rp314

I agree it's a very subjective thing, and was expecting various kinds of replies I think.

Glad I brought it up though as it's good to get other people's thoughts on things from outside this thinkbox - might help me to put it to rest somehow as I chew these opinions over

[Tricky-Loops]

A dense boring 8-minutes trance track isn't better than a sparse boring 8-minutes trance track...

[Frantz]

There's perhaps only one of my old 8+ minute tracks that didn't essentially repeat and rinse. The only one I wouldn't cut back (if I ever went back to old stuff, which I don't) was one that slowly morphed and changed in time to become somethng else by the end.

When I listen to tracks I did 15 years ago, I am doing this the whole time. Fortunately, this material is not on the internet.

It's painful but self-criticism is how you improve. It's very much a work in progress for me.

[cron]

I'm also pleased to see Trunk getting a mention. There's a record on there called The MMs Bar Recordings by Sandra Cross where she recorded all the announcements for the buffet car on her train commute and stuck them all back to back. I only listen to it when I'm on the train, where it suddenly becomes hilarious. I've also got a reissue of an old porno 8-track cartridge on Trunk which is also a wickedly funny listen.

Back on topic, my own approach is very sparse in terms of the number of tracks and elements (even the experimental stuff). I have to work really quickly to get things done or I start thinking they sound rubbish. As such, my stuff isn't anywhere near as well produced as it could be, but a lot of it does have a certain rawness and immediacy that I like.

About 10 years ago I was making stuff I called 'twitch-ambient'. Short tracks of about 4 minutes. Long sections with evolving textural detail punctuated with bursts of hyperactivity. I quite liked how the demands it placed on your attention varied within the individual tracks, calming down enough to sit in the background but occasionally grabbing attention with sudden sounds that were impossible to ignore.

So yeah, density is an interesting variable. In terms of both change over time and the 'content of the moment'. Lots of avenues to be explored there.

[The_Hidden_Goose]

@Frantz
I'm critical of my old stuff, and listen to see where I think I went wrong and how I could improve things for newer stuff. I don't go back to old stuff to redo them though, partly because I've often not got the projects any more (bit more organised these days) and partly because I'd end up never being satisfied with anything if I didn't make myself draw a line under things. That was me then, this is now kinda thing. Looking back is a valuable exercise though for sure.

@cron
Not heard of either of them - both sound interesting to me. I've got Time For Tristram Cary by Tristram Cary (radiophonic sillyness), and Blood On Satan's Claw by Marc Wilkinson - I've got a bit of a thing for old horror soundtracks from 70's through 80's for some reason - I couldn't tell you why though...some childhood peeping at sex-vampire flicks (there were a lot of them) maybe?

[jancivil]

thinking of and analyzing such things can be often quite useful.

First of all, what's dense and what's simple? Are Debussy's piano Preludes simple? In the harmonic sense, for example, they might be considered quite the opposite although a good number of them IMO would not necessarily fit the description of 'dense'. So, shouldn't there be more categories?

The OP appears to proceed by offering a dichotomy (as if at some point there is mutual exclusivity). So, this 'density', is it dense texturally/sonically, is it the ideas are complex vs simple? "Ambient" was just mentioned as 'minimal'. Sonically it might be really full, though. The latest thing I made intentionally proceeded from a limited germ and the 'tala' not to be escaped from, and a repeated bass part. The arrangement is rich and full, few would call it minimal but for me it was a type of minimalist exercise.

It is true that a lot of people in 'electronic music' such as it's framed around here typically would tend to hide under sound, and FX. That's not really much to go on except in reaction, as I read it. If you're kind of new to 'composing' and 'arranging' the composition, yes it's good to write for exposed sounds, like start with a single instrument. If you can persuade/convince with nowhere to hide like that, that' a basis for confidence as you proceed.

[The_Hidden_Goose]

To be honest I think Adrian Corker (the interviewee mentioned in the OP) was talking about density in terms of lots of instruments creating many layers, based on the greater context of his soundtrack and his recent works - rather than filling the spectrum up with sound.

But his use of "dense music" did get me thinking in broader terms, and how it made me think about how I go about making music. And indeed whether it matters or not. Sometimes I find it useful to get other opinions on something so nebulous when it's doing the rounds in my head, even if I selectively discard or embrace information as I see fit.

Been listening to a few of your tracks jancivil, and can definitely hear the "do both" approach in your work. Really like the Caucasian, Please [Phase 1] track, which seems an appropriate display of just that approach.

p.s...completely off-topic but do you program or play the drums?

[jancivil]

- the drums (and generally the instruments) I enter a phrase in, or a gesture in, at a time, live; and construct in the editors. I have some experience as a drummer and percussionist but I don't have all those drums, nor do I use an e-kit and sticks, I have a zendrum controller with little ceramic tables I hit with fingers.

One of the parts of that was done from bed, step-entering the drums by the pencil tool completely, though

[jancivil]

I like to orchestrate. The most strenuous training I underwent was as a solo classical performer, but that isn't me. So, you know, 'orchestration' is a matter of balance and weight and control of that aspect of 'density'. I understand that, what I take as 'transparency is good' but as an overarching aesthetic, not so compelling.

[The_Hidden_Goose]

Very impressive! That clattering busy quality really suits the arabian desert sound that seems to permeate the ones I listened to

[jancivil]

The thing I wanted to do with what came to be Phase 1 of the thing was to convince mainly by a drum part and then put bass, and typically I rely on a lead guitar line over top.
The Skanner track is often a first layer, though and that is what lent the sort of desert derangement vibe to this, so after I had 'Televised' together as drums and bass, the sort of faux-Arabic line occurred to me out of a Skanner thing I had going and I embroidered that with guitar. Then I really went for it with this whole 'MidEastern Percussion' patch in Battery. Which is dense, I ended up [Cubase-] drum-mapping all seven octaves in order to deal with it.

[The_Hidden_Goose]

Skanner the reaktor synth?

Giving it another go round..didn't really focus on synth sounds the first couple. It's all got a pretty instrument-played sound - the wailing parts seemed like reverbed eastern winds to me, and I suppose I didn't question that initial thought.

The bass-playing brings some of Tony Levin's stuff to mind

[jancivil]

yeah, Reaktor Skanner. I had a great time getting that wailing thing kind of Arabic wind instruments, a lot of work but as I try to rein it in I learn a lot about it. I have a stretch tuning set up in it which is troublesome to match but it is part of the easternness of it all. There are a lot of woodwinds elsewhere but in the most Arabic sections, no. What i like is to set up a synth patch (more Absynth) that suggests eg., 'strings with high winds' and then articulate that in more detail with eg., 'piccolo flute'. But Televised was a fairly small setup until the finale, where I seized on that militant snare figure as a motif and piled it on some.