Tips for Using Music Theory to Structure a track around Vocals

[Touch The Universe]

I would like to learn more about creating a track from the buttom up around vocals using some music theory techniques. Specifically techniques to create Pads or Strings to go along with the Vocals with chord progressions. Should I choose them according to what notes the vocals are playing. Any counter point methods I could use also according to the notes of the vocals or is it the same as a bass where ascending melody should have descending bass etc with no octave overlaps etc.. Also the type of music are from shevani voices of elves if that might help. Any advice or links to tutorials for a great place to start would be very helpful.

[DSmolken]

You can harmonize the vocal melody using chords that contain the notes in the melody, and that form a coherent chord progression that builds tension and then resolves it. Decide on the last chord first so you know where you're going and what you're resolving to, and work your way backwards. You can apply counterpoint and voice-leading rules as well.

That's theory. Also see what the usual practice is for your chosen genre - do chords usually last for one measure or do they change more often? All the chords all diatonic triads or do you get sevenths, ninths, flatted fifths etc? Are there standard/common chord progressions that get reused a lot? Is there a lot of counterpoint, or do things tend to go up/down together? You'll have to figure the answers out for yourselves, I'm completely clueless when it comes to elves.

If theory tells you do to something one way but practice tells you something else, following the practice is usually the safer bet.

[JumpingJackFlash]

You're actually asking a lot of different things here; Harmony, Counterpoint, Arranging, and perhaps a little of production techniques (such as mixing etc.) too.

This might be too big a thing to tackle all at once; like trying to run before you can walk. I would advise concentrating on each element individually for a while first.

As DSmolken said; studying your chosen genre is obviously of paramount importance. It wouldn't hurt to study the principles of harmony (etc.) more generally too.

[Touch The Universe]

Thanks for the replies. Sometimes in vocals phrases there are parts that I really like and had the idea to form a pad or strings to coincide with the cool melody part with the vocal and was wondering if there were some rules I could follow for some more ideas. I was thinking of opening the vocal phrase in fl pitch editor or melodyne to extract the midi to find the notes of the vocals then add on more notes with the strings sort of playing with the vocal melody, not necessarily playing the same notes on the chords. I understand how to play multiple instruments in same key very well. I will try writing the cadences first to make it easier as dsmolken suggested and how that works out.

About tackling them all at once I've had lots of experience in all the areas you suggested and was hoping to learn or discuss more ideas about structuring a track around vocals that could work for edm styles.

[DSmolken]

OK, for EDM styles, that narrows it down. Assuming the melody is in a minor key, tonal harmony textbooks with exercises in harmonizing melodies will tell you you might go for v-i or V-i or V7-i cadences, but in practice in EDM that would be very rare. That doesn't mean you shouldn't bother with textbooks, just don't consider them your only source of information. The last two chords are much more likely to be VII-i. The most common standard progression would be i-VI-III-VII with one measure of each. In A minor that would be Am-F-C-G - "Danza Kuduro".

[jancivil]

If you feel you need to have the machine tell you what pitches are there, you do not have lots of experience with that aspect of it, if any at all. Why are you telling us you have lots of experience in 'harmony, counterpoint' and the things JJF brought in, while asking us such a basic question? You need to start from where you actually are, which appears to be more at the beginning than someone that thinks (here is the term you want:) harmonizing melody is going to come to you right now.

Learn to transcribe things yourself. Pick things off of recordings by ear. No, it's not the easiest thing in the world and it will take some time.

You don't seem to have any background in harmony. I don't know what there is to discuss with the group here about 'structuring' a track around these vocals you bought. People study these things in order to obtain a useful conception. You need to get some legs before you walk, let alone run.

[Touch The Universe]

Thanks Dsmolken for those cadences I'll be sure to try them out and see how they sound in some of my edm tracks, the music theory I learned in college had alot of jazz and classical harmony 'structures' so its good to hear which cadences are good for edm. Its a shame there aren't more theory classes geared towards electronic music in universities..

Jancivil I appreciate your input and agree there are many areas I could brush up on and master to a point, especially telling pitches by ear. I don't need someone telling me how much experience I have in making music If I can have a machine telling me the pitches so I can write a good counterpoint accompaniment string pad to go with the notes I see and create something that sounds interesting then in my book I'm already running Would being able to hear the pitches by ear give me such more insight into what's going on then lead to more specific ideas? Probably. Isn't that called perfect pitch, so does everyone have that? Is it necessary to make music that sounds good? Is music theory necessary to make music sound good??? No.

I'm not sure what you mean by background in harmony but I've been created music after learning theory for about 5 years writing with knowledge of scales. I create alot of goa mostly and as far as chord progression they are entirely unnecessary in that genre. How long have I been creating music with complex harmonies that are in key even without knowing anything scales about 10 years. But as far as creating a melody in any chord I want, my favorite being a harmonic minor, I think i definitely have the basic down and lots of experience writing them in my tracks. As far as the rest about mixing and arranging thats something lots of experience tells me there is always more to learn and try out but that is definetely something I'm confident in.

[Touch The Universe]

(here is the term you want:) harmonizing melody

Just did a google search and found this http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2010/01/07 ... -melodies/. Thanks That's really interesting and what I was looking for

Learn to transcribe things yourself. Pick things off of recordings by ear. No, it's not the easiest thing in the world and it will take some time.

Yes. This is something I look forward to being able to do and am eager to get back in classes at university. I'm at Music Theory II so I guess its fair to say in this area I still have alot to learn and practice. But in the other areas of production I'm fully confident I have enough knowledge and experience, but still always more to learn and perfect.

Thanks again for the tips, will let you know how things come along and maybe post an example to see if I'm applying them correctly or for some clarifications.

[DSmolken]

Thanks Dsmolken for those cadences I'll be sure to try them out and see how they sound in some of my edm tracks, the music theory I learned in college had alot of jazz and classical harmony 'structures' so its good to hear which cadences are good for edm. Its a shame there aren't more theory classes geared towards electronic music in universities..

It kind of is a shame, but on the other hand I did take an electronic music course back in the 90s and looking back now it wasn't nearly as useful as the plain ol' tonal harmony course.

Tonal harmony deals with music written by a lot of different people over many centuries for very different ensembles, so it has to cover a lot of varied ground. That means it also applies very well to a lot of music made by people who have no idea about theory. Transcribe some EDM tracks and you'll pretty quickly get a feel for what bits of classical theory apply, which bits never really show up, and which are rare but sometimes found. There's usually nothing terribly complex harmonically so it's not like it would take a college-level course to learn it. I started to get a feel for how this stuff really works by transcribing a few dozen pop, reggaeton and hip-hop songs for a cover band.

Hell, if you have a decent ear and an hour of time you could probably sit down with an electro house mix playing on Youtube and just try to find the melodies and chords, see if you can play them with just a regular piano sound. Then you can take what you notice, plug it into point 1 in that Notreble article (in place of what it says about the V7 or IV chord and ii-V-I progression), and you'll be on your way.