FLStudio Vs Reason - Userbase

[Megazoid]

I wanted to start this thread to get some proper answers to some questions i have, and wanted to discuss. I have been a long term Fruityloops user (now FLStudio) and have always liked the workflow of the interface.

Times have changed though and i am wanting todo music production on a more professional level. I had been asked to produce a hip-hop track for a friend who had written some lyrics for a track and wanted a 'warm' (by this, he was meaning like an 50 Cent track) sounding track which he could rap too.

The one reason i love fruity is because it now has integrated audio handling (though basic imho) which makes it easy to sync vocals with your track or additional samples.

So my first idea was to check out what other's had done in fruity in this genre, to get some idea's for putting togther some drumloops and melodys (i have no clue about hip-hop music - except for some cd's i loaned from him).

So i went along to sectionz.com and signed up, started downloading the "best" (highest rated stuff) from the website and couldn't find a single high quality track out all the users on the site. Their were maybe one or two who had produced really good work, but the majourity was slim.

You would think with such a huge user base their would be alot more professional tracks kicking around, but it didn't seem so.

Everything i downloaded, be it trance, ambient, hip-hop sounded really ameture and nothing really shocked me as being truelly professional. It seemed alot of people using fruity didn't even know how to construct basic chords or even basic melodys. Though with that said, i cant blame the software for that.

I can understand the logic behind this, for most people fruity will be their first "stepping-stone" into the world of production and composing using pc, most people posting these track's dont except great feedback.

Anyway, about two months back i took the plunge and downloaded and installed Reason 2.5 demo. I was amazed at what this software could do, but it seemed really complex and the screen confused me. To be honest i couldn't understand the sequencer section too well at all. Where are my little blocks and patterns?

Also all this talk of refills and thing's scared me. And different save formats like rps, rns, etc...it just got confusing.

I did some research though and found out what refill's were, how to "wire" reason and how to create some basic stuff in it. I still felt it didn't work well with my workflow. I decided not to give up so easily (also 30 minutes wasn't giving me enough time to experiment or save anything).

So i went out and purchased the full-version and got plugging away. i must say i did like the concept of no external dependents (plugins, etc) and i noted their was alot of commercial refill's available which would be suitable for what i wanted todo.

I just couldn't for the life of me get it to work the way i wanted. I was confused by the interface and how i had to "wire" everything togther. I was used to just using the simple mixer in fruity and assigning effects, etc not wiring everything togther.

A friend had given me a link to a reason website where user's can post their tracks and get feedback. So i fired up and started downloading some tracks from their, my first intention to checkout the music i love, which is trance. So i downloaded some tracks...

My jaw literally hit the floor No longer was i hearing some overused fruity kick sample, no longer was i hearing some overused layered 3Osc, but true professional quality tracks, no matter what genre i selected; it was clear alot of true professionals (many unsigned or close to being signed) were producing great tracks using ONLY reason (well...mastering tools such as T-Racks as well).

I downloaded over 10 song's and to put thing's simply i really was amazed what people did with an integrated studio like reason, it was clear it was possible to produce truelly great track's using this. To the standard i had desired.

Anyway enough ranting on this subject. I am curious to know if i should get myself a book and learn reason or should i stick with fruity? I really dont know know what todo, i can see it being a huge task learning reason (and i'm a programmer - i normally pick software up fast). But i'm scared of reason!

I am curious to know how many professional producers are using Fruity for whole track's and not just drum patterns? from what i have seen, not many. I am sure their is the odd one, but i can't imagine many more "chart hits" or even just full tracks being done in fruity. Reason seem's to have a larger userbase and people doing the best possible with what they have. Also with the huge array of refills and thing's available it will probably be easier to construct tracks.

It's obviously impossible to say that one package is better than other. But on a userbase level i would for sure say reason IS better. Unless someone can point me in the direction of professional quality tracks fully produced in Fruity? Please dont mention the included one's, yeah their are two or three good tracks, but the ratio compared to reason is not comparable.

I dont want to start no flamewars or arguments.

And i also want to point out that i am not 'dissing' any program specifically. Personally i find Gol to be really helpful and friendly as a programmer and can see the huge amount of work he has done on fruity. Also which i have used and loved for many years.

It's sad, but i think it's time to move on...

...Discuss

[tony tony chopper]

the best one to me is probably

http://remix.kwed.org/download.php/1356 ... phonic.mp3

(at remix.kwed.org, an archive of C64 music remixes)

I always thought he used soundfonts and at least post-mastered his song, but no, it was made (at that time with a much more limited version of FL) with single-key samples. We got the project and it sounded straight like this. Amazing.


Deadmau5 & Toby, 2 FL betatesters, make highly professional tracks, although they're not using FL exclusively.
http://www.deadmau5.com
http://www.tobyemerson.com

[Sicklecell666]

It sounds like you are asking for re-inforcement on a decision you have already made. By your standards, Reason 'sounds' better according to the output of other individuals. I've seen ppl here drag Reason's sound through the dirt, and seen rabid FL Studio fanatics. It's a matter of what pleases your own ear I believe. I own both programs, & more or less experienced the same disorientation opening FL Studio the first time, becuase I was already used to Reason's interface. There's nothing to get intimidated about here, it's just adapting to a different way of accomplishing the same thing. I haven't used FL enough to even comment on it's routing schemes, but I couldn't imagine having more flexibility that using Reason's routings, especially with the spider modules.

The sequencer interface you're asking about is one of the two main views in Reason. If you REALLY want to commit to learning it, try the cheap as hell tutorial disc propellerheads sell on the web; it brings more or less everything into focus for you. No program is gonna give stellar sounds without some degree of mastery at it's controls. In contrast, the best engineers in the world can be powerless to make a good tune. The most overwhelming thing for me in this Digital Audio thing is that quite simply, before I bought my first DAW, I was a guitar/bassist & just wanted to exploit my computer in a new way to validate the time I would spend on it. Now, here I am learning synth programming, sequencing, automation, drum programming, sampler useage, mixing, mastering; do you get my point? There's ALOT to learn to be fully comprehensive at all this shit. Out there in the real world, you don't have many musician/engineer/producers; how much raw talent & brains can one person have? Here in our bedrooms, living rooms, studios, wherever, we are attempting to do the work of entire teams of ppl, & expect to be gratified by our results. This takes time, more than who uses the most popular software, results you TRULY can admire require committing yourself to something & sticking with it. DAW & synth hopping gets old after awhile & you eventually get numb once the WOW factor wears off, which can take as little as 5 minutes.

So, anyways, if you like Reason, lean into it & just commit yourself to it. Personally, I think it's great. I would on impulse drag FL Studio through the dirt, but that's really on account of my own ignorance with it's interface. I'm using Orion right now as my sequencer, & while I'm sure there's 'better' or more complex solutions, I can at this point within my abilities achieve results that are not a disapointment to me. But that's a result of using it on a regular basis. More importantly I feel, it's a result of not looking on the other side of the fence & working with the tools at hand.

Help any?

[Bassballjg]

Megatroid,you seem to have a positive attitude and an intuitive appreciation for the fact that there are no silver bullets.All of these programs have their pros and cons,strengths and weaknesses.The idea is that there is not one solution to every problem,but that you will need to evolve a system for yourself that does what you need it to do with optimized workflow.Use Fruity (which I have nver used and so will not comment on)for that which it does well for you,and Reason (of which I am an enthusiastic user,notwithstanding the ReWire Menace)for its hopefully complimentary strengths.
My specific advice is first,keep an open mind to the experiences you are having and never drink the kool-aid.Beware of the attitude of some (too many) that one program is the Shining City on the Hill while another is the Evil Empire.Such manichean absolutism has no place in this sphere of endeavor;subjectivity and individual preference constitute the natural and proper order of things in choosing artistic tools.Your creative world must and will find its own ecology and balance.
Second,the intimidation factor you feel from Reason will probably go away as you learn more and come to appreciate what it can do for you.It is a deep program and you will continue to learn as you go.What is daunting now may very well become first challenging and then ultimately seductive.
Thirdly,I would suggest that you look to getting a full-blown sequencer/daw app such as Sonar or Cubase to tie it all together.These apps offer more extensive midi and audio features that will open up new possibilities and efficiencies for you as your productions grow more sophisticated.Such host programs are the ultimate in flexibility,versitility and raw production power.
Stay positive,think for yourself,and good hunting.

[Bassballjg]

Megazoid,I do beg your pardon.

[goofrider]

Why would you be scared of Reason? It's so easy to use. If you never touched a hardware mixer or drum machine or synth b4, it might be a little intimidating, but it's not Reason itself that's intimidating, but the world of synth in general.

The routing in Reason emulates how real world hardware are wired together, so it's pretty easy to use. It's just routing audio. This isn't Reaktor or something where you wire osc's and lfo's together to make a synth. You know how to hook up a Dolby 5.1 surround system right?

What really makes Reason stands out is that it's all-in-one, easy to use, low-latency and resource-friendly.

So is Reason that much better than FL? Honestly, there aren't a whole lot of things you can only do in Reason but not FL. The sound modules in FL are probably not quite as powerful as Reason's, but FL can use VST instruments. Personally, I love Reason as a composing/brainstorming tool, but I'd prefer a VST studio environment for laying the tracks down.


The norm is still an open-ended environment, with loads of VST/AU plugins centered around a powerful sequencer like Cubase or Logic. I like Tracktion too, it's a pretty intuitive sequencer.

It really depends on what environment you find most comfortable working with. Many users prefer FL's pattern-oriented interface, and use it to control their libraries of VST instruments. If you're already confortable with FL, why not just stick with it and spend your $$$ on some quality VST plugins? And then if you grow out of FL (or when you get sick of FL's VST issues) you can spend a few exta $$$ on Cubase SE or Tracktion, and you can still keep using your VSTi.

[lucille]

Forgive me. But there is some sort of intellectual
deficit in an individual who is overwhelmed by Reason. And I have listened extensively to posted
tracks on the Reason site and I can assure you that
they do not sound professional. In fact, I think any
one wanting to make the case that Reason has some
audio engine issue need only point to the enclosed
demo songs or posted songs, all of which sound terrible. This is not to say Reason isn't a good software--it has very usable elements. I am just
amazed at people who will make unfavaorable comparisons between FL and Reason when then obviously understand neither software. Pathetic.

[Sicklecell666]

Forgive me. But there is some sort of intellectual
deficit in an individual who is overwhelmed by Reason. And I have listened extensively to posted
tracks on the Reason site and I can assure you that
they do not sound professional. In fact, I think any
one wanting to make the case that Reason has some
audio engine issue need only point to the enclosed
demo songs or posted songs, all of which sound terrible. This is not to say Reason isn't a good software--it has very usable elements. I am just
amazed at people who will make unfavaorable comparisons between FL and Reason when then obviously understand neither software. Pathetic.

A good case for not drinking the cool-aid.

[ew]

Once again,it's not the tools that make the music;it's the people using them.
For example,I personally don't like FL,but then there's people like normal who exclusively use FL and blow me away with what they do.I don't like Orion,but Kriminal does amazing things with it.The list goes on...
As I said in the beginning;it's not the tools,it's the person behind them...
ew

[spesimen]

seems like i've come across several folks who are pro and/or semi-pro who love reason and use it all the time, although ironically the main reason they gravitated to it was mainly ease of use..i'm talking about manufactured label releases not just downloads or demos or whatever...(lucille, aren't most demo songs that come with apps bad?? same for synth patches, i rarely hear any that actually fully excercise the potential of the product..shrug)...

anywya it really is a very simple program, i like it for that purpose too, it's a very short path from concept to execution and never crashes, syncs flawlessly with host apps, etc.. i personally haven't used fruity beyond a cursory glance so i can't really say much one way or another about it..

[gizmo]

Hi Megazoid--

Reason 2 was my first app so I sympathize: it's kind of a Chinese puzzle box. I got it because I couldn't make heads or tails out of Fruity! But you can do some great stuff with it if you learn to think like a Propellerhead. One basic trick: start connecting things and fiddling with knobs: you can make amazing sounds but not without routing, effects, etc. And learn the edit view in the sequencer as you can change anything there. I finish tracks off in Tracktion for mastering and tempo changes; it works great for me. Download tracks from the Prop site or from ReasonStation (better at ReasonStation but not always in RPS)and see how other people have done stuff. I've seen everything from total animation to some really well-trained keyboardist just improvising.

The best foundation book is the Fast Guide to Reason by Poyser and Johnson. Power Tools by Kurt Kurasaki is also great but more advanced. The Propellerhead help file is well done too: there's a tendency to forget about it but it's good.

Good luck, it's hard switching horses but worth it IMHO.

[DevonB]

Forgive me. But there is some sort of intellectual
deficit in an individual who is overwhelmed by Reason. And I have listened extensively to posted
tracks on the Reason site and I can assure you that
they do not sound professional. In fact, I think any
one wanting to make the case that Reason has some
audio engine issue need only point to the enclosed
demo songs or posted songs, all of which sound terrible. This is not to say Reason isn't a good software--it has very usable elements. I am just
amazed at people who will make unfavaorable comparisons between FL and Reason when then obviously understand neither software. Pathetic.

Actually, the only thing pathetic is your shitty attitude. I think that speaks volumes in itself. Get a grip.

Devon

[spesimen]

oh, and i imagine with steinberg's marketing and propellerheads rep they have a larger installed base so statistically there's more likely to be good tracks too if you're measuring by raw #'s of tracks..

[Sicklecell666]

Forgive me. But there is some sort of intellectual
deficit in an individual who is overwhelmed by Reason. And I have listened extensively to posted
tracks on the Reason site and I can assure you that
they do not sound professional. In fact, I think any
one wanting to make the case that Reason has some
audio engine issue need only point to the enclosed
demo songs or posted songs, all of which sound terrible. This is not to say Reason isn't a good software--it has very usable elements. I am just
amazed at people who will make unfavaorable comparisons between FL and Reason when then obviously understand neither software. Pathetic.

Actually, the only thing pathetic is your shitty attitude. I think that speaks volumes in itself. Get a grip.

Devon

Glad someone else noticed besides me...

Someone comes in here in earnest & gets called pathetic. Real f**king nice there..

[DevonB]

Glad someone else noticed besides me...

Someone comes in here in earnest & gets called pathetic. Real f**king nice there..

I'm sure most people couldn't follow the 3 day class I took last week of being able to understand an analyze every single bit that flies over your data cable to your hard drive. Does that make everyone pathetic too that they can't follow an engineering level course? Please. Some people need to puff up their egos to make themselves feel good, but to the rest of the world, it's immature petty bullshit.

Devon