I guess Kontakt is the only way...

[D.H. Miltz]

While we're at it I'll just smack myself for not putting this in the Sampler subforum.

Moved.

[Sampleconstruct]

I'll continue developing libraries for MachFive and HALion, returning to Kontakt after spending many months with those two seems so incredibly limited.

ask somebody who knows how really sophisticated scripting work.

I'm not talking about the scripting part, Kontakt's scripting is fine.

what about Kontakt in comparison is so limited?

Kontakt plays back samples and stretches them, it has no synth engines, no granulators, no organ engines, no wavetable synths with single cycle wave import, no FM synth, no drum modules and and and...

[CrystalWizard]

you're making me want to get Mach 5.
my main use for Kontakt originally was for my own samples.

[Sampleconstruct]

you're making me want to get Mach 5.
my main use for Kontakt originally was for my own samples.

In case you do get it, you won't regret it.

[murnau]

I'll continue developing libraries for MachFive and HALion, returning to Kontakt after spending many months with those two seems so incredibly limited.

ask somebody who knows how really sophisticated scripting work.

I'm not talking about the scripting part, Kontakt's scripting is fine.

what about Kontakt in comparison is so limited?

Kontakt plays back samples and stretches them, it has no synth engines, no granulators, no organ engines, no wavetable synths with single cycle wave import, no FM synth, no drum modules and and and...

because it's a sampler. reading the list of features for mach5 it's like having a synth vsti with sample import as additional feature. for your work as a developer this maybe works out to be way better sure, but saying kontakt (supposed we talking about a sampler at first) is limited is unfair imho.

of course you can put "everything" in it but i prefer a sampler to be a "sampler" a granular synth to be a granular synth etc.. where we are saying kontakt is limited because it dont have FM synth or drum modules or synth engines? sorry, i dont get your point as whole. i dont need an "all-in-one solution" and i doubt majority of people need or want. again, for you as developer with emphasis for granular synthesis (no?) this maybe work out to be a great thing but saying kontakt is limited? i dont see it, sorry.

[EvilDragon]

Tone Machine in Kontakt is a granular engine, btw. Doesn't have the finesse of the one in MF3, but it is there nonetheless.

[Sampleconstruct]

Tone Machine in Kontakt is a granular engine, btw. Doesn't have the finesse of the one in MF3, but it is there nonetheless.

Sure, all sorts of time stretching-functions iare based on granular synthesis, but I think you know what I'm talking about.

[Sampleconstruct]

I'll continue developing libraries for MachFive and HALion, returning to Kontakt after spending many months with those two seems so incredibly limited.

ask somebody who knows how really sophisticated scripting work.

I'm not talking about the scripting part, Kontakt's scripting is fine.

what about Kontakt in comparison is so limited?

Kontakt plays back samples and stretches them, it has no synth engines, no granulators, no organ engines, no wavetable synths with single cycle wave import, no FM synth, no drum modules and and and...

because it's a sampler. reading the list of features for mach5 it's like having a synth vsti with sample import as additional feature. for your work as a developer this maybe works out to be way better sure, but saying kontakt (supposed we talking about a sampler at first) is limited is unfair imho.

of course you can put "everything" in it but i prefer a sampler to be a "sampler" a granular synth to be a granular synth etc.. where we are saying kontakt is limited because it dont have FM synth or drum modules or synth engines? sorry, i dont get your point as whole. i dont need an "all-in-one solution" and i doubt majority of people need or want. again, for you as developer with emphasis for granular synthesis (no?) this maybe work out to be a great thing but saying kontakt is limited? i dont see it, sorry.

Fine, if you prefer to have things seperated, go for it (maybe demo at least HALion 5 so you have an idea of what you're actually writing about), I feel the opposite and think it's a brilliant concept to combine all these things at a high quality level in one application. After all Kontakt, HALion and MachFive are all marketed and perceived as "samplers", the latter two just have a lot more to offer.

[robotmonkey]

Err... No. X3 has a horrid interface!

I agree that the interface is butt-ugly and kinda looks like it's a offspring of MS Word 97 and alien spacecraft but it is also highly functional and practical so that you soon will get used to its ugliness. E-MU's experience with hardware sampling really shines through in Emulator X3.

I have never got used to Kontakt interface though and that's why I'm not using it.

Also I'm not fan of working with multi-gigabit libraries in general.

thats not because of kontakt but because of the sampled content. have enough a few 100mb or less nki here.

Well, obviously it's not inherent requirement of Kontakt but combination of many factors. Of course the growth of cheap storage space and RAM have an important part to play. But NI has been in the forefront of releasing huge loads of bloat and Kontakt libraries tend to be right up there. As Kontakt has grown in popularity it has also become to symbolize sample libraries that are made big just because it can be done. It does sound good in a marketing blurb though: "Our library has 20 gigs more stuff than the competition!". And people seem to think that it's true - if it has more gigabytes then it must be better.

I'm not fond of multi-gigabit sample libraries because they are very often just a waste of resources. In a mix nobody is going to notice all those 127 velocity layers that are crammed in a 6 gigabyte sampled instrument. If you look at some of the old Kurzweil, Ensoniq or E-MU libraries it is amazing what was done only with 16, 32 or 64 megs of RAM. Sampling then was an real art. And just for the record in some cases I do see point of those multi-gigabit libraries.

And if one want's to avoid Kontakt I think all those old Kurzweil, Ensoniq, E-MU or AKAI libraries are still eminently usable. It does mean some extra work though converting them to SFZ or any native VSTi sampler format.

Also one should ask himself how much sounds do you actually need. For example if going with Dimension you already have access to so many sounds (both general bread and butter and more esoteric too) that you have unlimited palette of sounds. These can all be layered, treated with effects and so on.

[murnau]

Fine, if you prefer to have things seperated, go for it (maybe demo at least HALion 5 so you have an idea of what you're actually writing about), I feel the opposite and think it's a brilliant concept to combine all these things at a high quality level in one application. After all Kontakt, HALion and MachFive are all marketed and perceived as "samplers", the latter two just have a lot more to offer.

depends what you want, with the same right you can say that halion's megatrig is a bad joke compared to kontakts vast scripting capabilities. would i say halion is limited? no.

ps. a friend of mine (a big steinberg fan and cubase user) owns halion. it doesnt impressed me much because it sound weak (Mach sounds terrific btw): i guess the stock library lack layers and round robin and natural sounding sample-instruments is what i want from a sampler/library first of all. for the synth stuff i have other and better options.

[EvilDragon]

for the synth stuff i have other and better options.

This. I mean, one can't expect the sheer analog-like brilliance coming out of Monark or Diva in a sampler of your choice, right? I prefer things separate for that very reason. However, MF3 is not bad as a "desert island" type of plugin - if you had to rely on one and one only. But, as far as I'm concerned, it would still need to match Kontakt's performance regarding sample crunching first. That, and also its Organ oscillator should stop being a joke and actually model some tonewheels and transistor organs. Right now it's just basically the same thing as Analog Stack set to all sines at different pitches, in a different GUI.

[whyterabbyt]

But NI has been in the forefront of releasing huge loads of bloat and Kontakt libraries tend to be right up there. .

Could people stop using the word 'bloat' to mean 'stuff I dont want myself, even though other people actually do'

[loachm]

Kontakt plays back samples and stretches them, it has no synth engines, no granulators, no organ engines, no wavetable synths with single cycle wave import, no FM synth, no drum modules and and and...

...I guess, it wouldn't make sense for NI to implement such features into Kontakt as this kind of modularity approach is already existent in Reaktor. Also, this is pointing to the sound design direction (no wonder you're preferring it ) and for that Reaktor is also NI's swiss army knife...

[Sampleconstruct]

Kontakt plays back samples and stretches them, it has no synth engines, no granulators, no organ engines, no wavetable synths with single cycle wave import, no FM synth, no drum modules and and and...

...I guess, it wouldn't make sense for NI to implement such features into Kontakt as this kind of modularity approach is already existent in Reaktor. Also, this is pointing to the sound design direction (no wonder you're preferring it ) and for that Reaktor is also NI's swiss army knife...

That's an aspect I haven't considered concerning Reaktor. The handling of samples inside Reaktor is a limited nightmare though, 128 samples in that clunky Sample Map and that's it, nothing for deep sampled instruments.
----
What I just really like is to combine all kinds of synthesis forms within one single patch, it's not the either/or-aspect but layering a multisampled instrument with several velocity zones and round robin with a synth in the lower half of the keyboard, maybe the same sample map reversed in granular mode with real time-control over sample speed and grain randomization, another synth for the high register and maybe a FM synth only for the highest velocity layers just opens totally new doors for sound designing. Add a cool script on top with lot's of controls and you have something very musical and customizable.

[BBFG#]

But NI has been in the forefront of releasing huge loads of bloat and Kontakt libraries tend to be right up there. .

Could people stop using the word 'bloat' to mean 'stuff I dont want myself, even though other people actually do'

'Bloat' has more to do with,
"We're putting it in the package, whether you want it or not."
And 98% of the supplied Kontakt sounds have proven themself nice for what they are, but completely useless for me.