Reason?

[KevWestBeats]

Its a power house now and the Rack Extension format will eventually make Reason just as powerful if not more than other DAWs once it matures. Props stuck to their guns and made a very niche program

I can't see that happening. As long as devs have limited time/resources they will concentrate on standards that most daws support. There will probably never the same range of choice for Reason as there is for a host that supports VST or Au.

I agree that there will always be more vsts than RE but more doesn't mean more powerful it just means more. Also idk if you have seen how many vst devs actually make RE but its not very many. Most of them are Reason users who decided to try their hand at the format.

[stroker_ace]

the Rack Extension format will eventually make Reason just as powerful if not more than other DAWs once it matures.

Uh, no.

It's not like the other DAWs and VST developers will take a nice, long break to give Rack Extensions time to "mature"; they will be moving forward, too.

It's not like vst devs are the only people making re in fact they are in the minority. Reason users tend to be patient and many re devs are reason users

I don't think you understood me.

You said that Reason will become just as powerful if not more powerful than other DAWs once Rack Extensions mature.

That maturation process will obviously take time, and in that time, Ableton will be working to improve Live, Presonus will be working to improve Studio One, Native Instruments will be working on new things, new VSTs will be released, new Kontakt libraries will be released, etc.

There's obviously a lot more going on outside the world of Reason than inside it, and that will never change.

In short; Reason will never catch up. It's just simple math.

[V0RT3X]

When it comes to buying a RE device I personally would prefer to stick to the bigger more established names myself like U-he, Korg, softube, etc. I figure if the dev can develop cross platform that that speaks bounds about their programming skills.

I generally avoid the smaller names because I want stability and quality. I still don't agree with the propellerhead policy of not being able to sell your RE device licences after so I do remain very cautious when buying.

The propellerhead RE devices are probably the only RE devices that i would buy from a dev who does'nt develop for other platforms because they are the RE SDK designers and know their stuff. I honestly think Propellerhead should have only let established developers build RE devices because now like the App store there seems to be alot of questionable looking RE devices that come across as cheap.

[stroker_ace]

Its a power house now and the Rack Extension format will eventually make Reason just as powerful if not more than other DAWs once it matures. Props stuck to their guns and made a very niche program

I can't see that happening. As long as devs have limited time/resources they will concentrate on standards that most daws support. There will probably never the same range of choice for Reason as there is for a host that supports VST or Au.

I agree that there will always be more vsts than RE but more doesn't mean more powerful it just means more. Also idk if you have seen how many vst devs actually make RE but its not very many. Most of them are Reason users who decided to try their hand at the format.

Softube, u-he, Korg, GForce, and Synapse make both.

Korg chopped off the effects section when they ported MonoPoly over to the Rack Extension format.

GForce won't release their second Rack Extension due to SDK limitations.

Urs from u-he has said that they can't bring their synths over to the Rack Extension format because the SDK isn't ready.

So yes, Reason is currently MUCH weaker than any DAW that can run VSTs.

[V0RT3X]

I agree that the RE device platform is weaker due to SDK limitations. If propellerhead does not release major changes to the platform they will get left behind in the dust and quickly.

Personally they should have just made a VST wrapper device and be done with it.

[Grasshopper]

the Rack Extension format will eventually make Reason just as powerful if not more than other DAWs once it matures.

Uh, no.

It's not like the other DAWs and VST developers will take a nice, long break to give Rack Extensions time to "mature"; they will be moving forward, too.

It's not like vst devs are the only people making re in fact they are in the minority. Reason users tend to be patient and many re devs are reason users

You're really contradicting yourself.

How could Reason ever compete like you're claiming if the majority of RE's makers are "former Reason users" and not top VST designers?? That's completely where your logic jumped to.

As was easily pointed out, REAL Vst dev's will be working with better platforms the whole time.

It's an extremely immature crowd that ever think RE's will ever remotely rival VST let a lone have a real impact on studios ANYWHERE in the world.

[Grasshopper]

RE's effect what comes out of bedrooms...

Not studios.

[V0RT3X]

I agree that Reason is marketed more as a creative tool aimed at bedroom producers but that still does not stop "professionals" from using it along side other programs.

Personally I never saw Reason as an attempt to become a full fledged DAW, but more of a creative platform for creating music. If you want a professional DAW then buy Cubase, Logic etc.

Sure lots of the rack devices from older versions of reason might be sounding a bit long in the tooth compared to some of the newer cutting edge VSTs that exist, but the RE platform was designed to offer a bit of compromise for that.

At the end of the day if a studio is making a song with reason and it sounds good enough to sell and make money then all the power to them. I personally get tired of the "pros" who feel the need to say reason is not professional or capable of professional results.

For me Reason is a artists tool that offers a lot for very little money in a stable self-contained platform that you can rewire into your DAW. No I am not going to be using it to attempt to master a track, nor am I going to be using it to achieve the ultimate in audio fidelity. No i am not expecting Reason to sound analog or offer me realistic emulations of hardware X even though the RE platform is working to change that.

I use it for the flexibility and creative possibilities that I can come up with by fiddling with the CV routing or audio routing via it's back. I use it for it's ability to let me have massive amounts of real time instrument playback due to it's very low CPU requirements.

You like it or you don't, i personally do and will not stop using it.

[KevWestBeats]

the Rack Extension format will eventually make Reason just as powerful if not more than other DAWs once it matures.

Uh, no.

It's not like the other DAWs and VST developers will take a nice, long break to give Rack Extensions time to "mature"; they will be moving forward, too.

It's not like vst devs are the only people making re in fact they are in the minority. Reason users tend to be patient and many re devs are reason users

I don't think you understood me.

You said that Reason will become just as powerful if not more powerful than other DAWs once Rack Extensions mature.

That maturation process will obviously take time, and in that time, Ableton will be working to improve Live, Presonus will be working to improve Studio One, Native Instruments will be working on new things, new VSTs will be released, new Kontakt libraries will be released, etc.

There's obviously a lot more going on outside the world of Reason than inside it, and that will never change.

In short; Reason will never catch up. It's just simple math.

I understood you perfectly I just don't agree

[KevWestBeats]

the Rack Extension format will eventually make Reason just as powerful if not more than other DAWs once it matures.

Uh, no.

It's not like the other DAWs and VST developers will take a nice, long break to give Rack Extensions time to "mature"; they will be moving forward, too.

It's not like vst devs are the only people making re in fact they are in the minority. Reason users tend to be patient and many re devs are reason users

You're really contradicting yourself.

How could Reason ever compete like you're claiming if the majority of RE's makers are "former Reason users" and not top VST designers?? That's completely where your logic jumped to.

As was easily pointed out, REAL Vst dev's will be working with better platforms the whole time.

It's an extremely immature crowd that ever think RE's will ever remotely rival VST let a lone have a real impact on studios ANYWHERE in the world.

Have you actually tried the REs? A lot of the really good ones are made by people who do not develop vsts. That is a good thing in a way because they are developing purely with Reason in mind rather than trying to port and make their vsts work with Reason.

[KevWestBeats]

Its a power house now and the Rack Extension format will eventually make Reason just as powerful if not more than other DAWs once it matures. Props stuck to their guns and made a very niche program

I can't see that happening. As long as devs have limited time/resources they will concentrate on standards that most daws support. There will probably never the same range of choice for Reason as there is for a host that supports VST or Au.

I agree that there will always be more vsts than RE but more doesn't mean more powerful it just means more. Also idk if you have seen how many vst devs actually make RE but its not very many. Most of them are Reason users who decided to try their hand at the format.

Softube, u-he, Korg, GForce, and Synapse make both.

Korg chopped off the effects section when they ported MonoPoly over to the Rack Extension format.

GForce won't release their second Rack Extension due to SDK limitations.

Urs from u-he has said that they can't bring their synths over to the Rack Extension format because the SDK isn't ready.

So yes, Reason is currently MUCH weaker than any DAW that can run VSTs.

I didn't say no vst creators made RE. I said that the majority are not made by people who make vsts. I am not saying every RE is great but I am saying a lot of the great ones are made by people who do not make vsts. I am ready to see how it develops over time. I don't see Reason as weaker than any other audio software. Somethings are easier for me to do in Reason some things are easier for me to do in Live or Maschine.

[highkoo]

I actually cant believe the RE thing didnt put Props out of business...

[Ogopogo]

Its a power house now and the Rack Extension format will eventually make Reason just as powerful if not more than other DAWs once it matures. Props stuck to their guns and made a very niche program

I can't see that happening. As long as devs have limited time/resources they will concentrate on standards that most daws support. There will probably never the same range of choice for Reason as there is for a host that supports VST or Au.

I agree that there will always be more vsts than RE but more doesn't mean more powerful it just means more. Also idk if you have seen how many vst devs actually make RE but its not very many. Most of them are Reason users who decided to try their hand at the format.

I don't see what else "power" could mean though. Without rack extensions Reason's instruments and effects don't have any technical limitations that vst doesn't have right? So power would mean getting whatever sound you want, which would mean having the largest selection of tools to choose from, right? I mean what power do rack extensions add to Reason other than "more?"

[KevWestBeats]

Its a power house now and the Rack Extension format will eventually make Reason just as powerful if not more than other DAWs once it matures. Props stuck to their guns and made a very niche program

I can't see that happening. As long as devs have limited time/resources they will concentrate on standards that most daws support. There will probably never the same range of choice for Reason as there is for a host that supports VST or Au.

I agree that there will always be more vsts than RE but more doesn't mean more powerful it just means more. Also idk if you have seen how many vst devs actually make RE but its not very many. Most of them are Reason users who decided to try their hand at the format.

I don't see what else "power" could mean though. Without rack extensions Reason's instruments and effects don't have any technical limitations that vst doesn't have right? So power would mean getting whatever sound you want, which would mean having the largest selection of tools to choose from, right? I mean what power do rack extensions add to Reason other than "more?"

I think you confuse variety and choice with power. I am looking forward to RE that are capable of doing more things and with Props opening the door for other people to create their rack devices that means they can focus on the core of Reason and getting it on par with other DAWs as far as what it cannot do. Not saying it will happen over night by I would be surprised if Reason versions 8 to 10 aren't progressive updates to give Reason features that other DAWs have had for years.

[tonkatodd]

I mostly use Pro Tools 11 and Reaktor for my projects but I also use Reason everyday. Some of the RE's are incredible especially Ammo 1200BR which tends to be the first thing I ad starting a new project either as a start of a new synth part or as a CV processor hub. I really like the sound of Reason and I find it very inspiring when I work with it and always come up with something I like but that's just me. One thing I think Propellerheads should do is include Parsec, PX7 and Radical Piano with Reason instead of selling them separately. RE have some great features coming and I think when RE can have sample import it will open the door to RE samplers and sample processing.