No midi-out option on vsti. Any workaround?

[RafaelMorgan]

Hey folks,

How are you?

The thread's title seems a little bit weird, but I'll explain it to you.

I've got this plugin, Strum Acoustics GS-1, from AAS. It's got an awesome strum mechanics, but its sound itself is not that nice.

So, I want to use its strum mechanics to control one of my Kontakt's instruments, which is a nice sampled acoustic guitar...You know, I want to see if I can get some good strumming out of it.

The problem is, Strum Acoustics GS-1 doesn't have any midi-out options.

Is there any workaround for this situation? Any plugin or something?

By the way, I'm using Presonus Studio One v2.

Thanks in advance,

Raf.

[dsan@mail.com]

In S1 you can set your track input's/output's to another track so you should be able to send Strums data to Kontakt.

For example; you set two tracks; each have the respective VST on it.

Track 1 = Strum - with midi data on the track. You set the output to Strum, channel 1, and the input, or not, to whatever source you would like except Track 2 (Kontakt).

Track 2 = Kontakt - no midi data. You set the input from track 1, Strum. You set the output to Kontakt, Channel 1 (assuming you have the instrument on channel 1. Otherwise set it to the correct channel.)

Kontakt will then sound the notes found on track 1.

Here's the caveat; if Strum requires long notes to be able to play a staccato passage, for example, it is likely you will hear long notes being played by Kontakt (the MIDI data from track 1). Strum will not port its "phrase" to Kontakt if it behaves the way I think it will. Some instruments will actually send the sequence but I don't think Strum will. I do not have Strum so cannot say with certainty how it behaves.

I'm not at my DAW at this moment so cannot test the theory and am reciting from memory how I have set this up previously using other instruments. (For example, I have Albion and inside it is found some Ostinatum patterns. On one track I send an "A" note for 4 bars; the Ostinatum pattern plays and I can send this to another instrument and hear exactly the Ostinatum pattern instead of the long "A" note.)

While the routing will be the same regardless, the results may not be what you are after.

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[dsan@mail.com]

UPDATE:
So I dl'd the Strum demo.

It seems all you have to do is set up the loop player with your choice of strum type from the library and then drag the MIDI to a track of choice. It seems the loop player will open any MIDI file.

I am unable to record the midi from the loop player in my DAW so it is as I suspected.

I didn't dig too deep into Strum due to limited time, but basically just drag and drop your MIDI file onto the Kontakt track.

Am I missing something else?

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[RafaelMorgan]

Hey dsan,

Thanks for your help, brother.

Actually, the coolest part about Strum Acoustics is when you play chords with your left hand and strum them manually, using the C5 (up strum) and D5 (down strum) keys.

From all vsti acoustic guitars I've ever tried which have some kind of strum system, Strum Acoustics is by far the very best regarding the manual strum mechanics themselves.

Try it yourself. Make some chords with your left hand and play around with C5 and D5, like you're playing a real guitar. Then you'll know what I mean. After some practice, it becomes very natural.

That's what I'm trying to output to another midi track, the manual strumming.

I've managed to find a midi plugin with slightly similar mechanics, but it's not the same thing...It's called midiStrum, by Insert Piz Here.

Cheers,

Raf.

[dformd]

Strum Acoustics GS-1 -> WIDI Audio to MIDI (VST or AU) -> Piz midiForceToKey -> Kontakt
MAY do the job; partially depending on the quality of the signal you send to the WIDI Audio to MIDI plugin (I've found it prefers sine waves, but alas...)

There's a demo:
http://www.widisoft.com/english/widi-au ... i-vst.html
http://www.widisoft.com/english/widi-au ... di-au.html

You may also want to try the MIDI Guitar VST plugin.
I have the iPad version which works quite well.
http://jamorigin.com/products/

There's other options/approaches, but I'm feeling a tad brain dead.

[dsan@mail.com]

Hey dsan,

Thanks for your help, brother.

Actually, the coolest part about Strum Acoustics is when you play chords with your left hand and strum them manually, using the C5 (up strum) and D5 (down strum) keys.

From all vsti acoustic guitars I've ever tried which have some kind of strum system, Strum Acoustics is by far the very best regarding the manual strum mechanics themselves.

Try it yourself. Make some chords with your left hand and play around with C5 and D5, like you're playing a real guitar. Then you'll know what I mean. After some practice, it becomes very natural.

That's what I'm trying to output to another midi track, the manual strumming.

I've managed to find a midi plugin with slightly similar mechanics, but it's not the same thing...It's called midiStrum, by Insert Piz Here.

Cheers,

Raf.

Kewl!

So I played around a bit more this morning and it is as I suspected - sort of.

I'm unable to route the MIDI in to Kontakt from Strum - bummer. Playing Strum produces a completely different effect (strumming obviously) than when playing Kontakt.

The strum patterns are cool when playing Strum but when I drag the recorded MIDI chords onto Kontakt it is not the same result. It ends up just a chord.

I'm afraid Raf you are out of luck with the method I first described.

Perhaps the method dformd described will work. Although I doubt this due to Strum not having MIDI out capabilities.

Actually, I'm not sure why you are opposed to the sound of Strum. It sounds pretty good to me. Almost sounds like AAS sampled a Martin in this case (the instrument I used for the test).

I hope you get it working. Sorry I couldn't have been more help.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[RafaelMorgan]

dformd,

I guess it doesn't make much sense to convert the audio to midi, since the midi is already there. Anyway, I've tried a bunch of audio to midi plugins and none of them work well enough with polyphonic signals, specially complex ones like strums.

dsan,

Yeah...I guess there's no solution then. AAS should really introduce a midi-out feature to this plugin since its strum engine is pretty nice.

Not that I don't like the sound, brother...I just think physical modeling is not quite there yet. In this case, the guitar just ends up sounding too perfect. You know, it lacks options to humanize the sound a bit, like finger/string noises and other kinds of natural artifacts. Maybe you guys could recommend me a plugin or method that to dirt it up a bit and make it sound more natural/organic?

Again, thanks for your help.

Cheers,

Raf.

[dsan@mail.com]

......physical modeling is not quite there yet.

Well, that should tell you what it is I know

Didn't realize this is a physical modeling instrument. I thought they had sampled.

As for suggestions, I don't much use guitars in my works, although around KVR Orange Tree Samples and Hollow Sun are highly rated. You may want to look into them. They also host forums here at KVR

FWIW - I had purchased Real Guitar and attempted the same you were trying to do - move the MIDI patterns off to Kontakt instrument. It didn't work either and is the reason I felt your wish would not be granted.

I can tell you I find Real Guitar to be a let down in the sound department. They do not sound good to me. Strum sounds much better.

I do like the patterns Real Guitar can develop, but again, I could not route the instrument into Kontakt so I have sort of forgot about it.

Hope you find what you need!

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[RafaelMorgan]

I do like the patterns Real Guitar can develop, but again, I could not route the instrument into Kontakt so I have sort of forgot about it.

Thanks dsan,

I don't know which version of Real Guitar you have tried, but in version 3, you can choose to output midi, audio or both.

So, Real Guitar can be used to strum Kontakt instruments. How good it will sound will depend on a hundred variables, though.

Strumming involves very complex interactions, that's why all those plugin companies have a hard time trying to create a realistic strum guitar vst.

Cheers,

Raf.

[fx1mark]

dsan, I am surprised that you didn't like the sound of real guitar, I think it is quite good. have you tried running it through amp simulation software. I don't have strum acoustic, but I do have strum electric. I personally would rather strum with my left hand and chord with my right. I have asked AAS about adding the option and they said maybe in the next version. seems a like a simple request. anyway, real guitar is set up that both ways.
Rafael, have you seen real guitars struminator function? It's pretty cool and a blast to play. the strumming has a bit of a learning curve but worth the effort. here is a crude video I did. the second part is realstrat with amplitube.

https://vimeo.com/49141657

[dsan@mail.com]

dsan, I am surprised that you didn't like the sound of real guitar, I think it is quite good. have you tried running it through amp simulation software. I don't have strum acoustic, but I do have strum electric. I personally would rather strum with my left hand and chord with my right. I have asked AAS about adding the option and they said maybe in the next version. seems a like a simple request. anyway, real guitar is set up that both ways.
Rafael, have you seen real guitars struminator function? It's pretty cool and a blast to play. the strumming has a bit of a learning curve but worth the effort. here is a crude video I did. the second part is realstrat with amplitube.

https://vimeo.com/49141657

That's the thing with music and sound....it all sounds different to different people.

Actually, fx1mark, I'm not surprised to hear you like it. Afterall, Real Guitar does have a very good reputation. That was the biggest reason I bought it.

And TBH, at first I did like the sound. But then as I used it more I came to think it sounded more like a toy guitar. Just sort of fake sounding. I get the same though from the Kontakt Band guitars.

Guess I'm just too used to the sound of my real guitars. Getting up there in years too so things change

Yes, I did run it through NI's Guitar Rig sims....and TBH, now that I think about it, that's when I started to dislike its sound. Hmmmmm......


Naw....just fired it up again....it just sounds flat to me. No character. Prolly' just me

It will do in a pinch though so it's not like I am really unhappy with it and won't use it. Again, I don't often use a guitar in my works.

So, @Raf - since I fired it up, yes, I can get MIDI out of it, but what I meant was, I can't get the patterns out on to a track to move to another. The same sort of problem you ran into with Strum.

For example, I set up recording, play a chord, RG plays the pattern I have selected just fine.

But the recorded track is my chords, not the patterns.

Perhaps I'm not setting up correctly? Dunno

It will be nice if AAS adds MIDI out as fx1mark has requested. I may become more interested in Strum then. I have other AAS product and od like their stuff.

One more thing.....I remember your vid, fx1mark.....watched it before and
THIS is what prompted me to buy RG. I never got the sound out of you are....it DOES sound much better in your vid.....so it must be some FX I need to add to get it to sound right. I think I'll give it another go.

Ok, so I'm winded now

Sorry for the long post.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[dsan@mail.com]

dsan, I am surprised that you didn't like the sound of real guitar, I think it is quite good. ........

You know what I just realized.......I'm not giving credit where credit due........

It just occurred to me that every make of guitar has its own unique character;

For example, if I wanted to play Country Rock, ala Credence or the like, I grabbed my Fender Jaguar.

If I wanted to play jazz, it had to be a Gibson or Gretsch.

I just love the sound of a Martin acoustic.

I had a Kay that sounded completly different from any of these.

My Yamaha does fine for noodling around......etc, etc.

Each of these has their own unique sound.

I got so used to these I guess I expected RG to sound similar.

It can't because it's a different make and model.

Thanks so very much fx1mark for making me think about this!

Maybe I'll get a different perspective by opening my mind a bit

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[fx1mark]

my pleasure dsan, sounds like I just need to get you to play my guitar parts.

[RafaelMorgan]

So, @Raf - since I fired it up, yes, I can get MIDI out of it, but what I meant was, I can't get the patterns out on to a track to move to another. The same sort of problem you ran into with Strum.

For example, I set up recording, play a chord, RG plays the pattern I have selected just fine.

But the recorded track is my chords, not the patterns.

Perhaps I'm not setting up correctly? Dunno

Hey dsan,

Just recording the midi wont cut it.

You have to enable midi-out in the output options, which is located in the upper left corner of the plugin's interface. There you can choose between midi, audio or both. You can choose a different channel for the midi-out as well. Check it out.

Then, instead of simply recording it in the same track, just add another midi track in your DAW and select Real Guitar (and the previously selected output channel) as input.

It works perfectly for me. In fact, I'm strumming a Kontakt ukulele right now using this routing.

Cheers,

Raf.

[dsan@mail.com]

Holy Cow! THANK YOU for this Raf!

Works like a charm

All this time .............Now I got more MIDI than I know what to do with
Too Cool!

Too bad Strum isn't this easy to get that huh?

Thanks again!

@fx1mark -
Well, I DIDn't say I was good at it!

Besides, from your vid it seems you're doing just fine

Thanks for the compliment.

Happy Musiking!
dsan