KVR Audio

virtualmark · Post by **virtualmark** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:48 pm

LawrenceF wrote:In proper context though, it's more a music production tool, not an editing tool so much yet so, not a really big deal in any way that I can see... unless someone will try to make into PT or something like that.

That's quite an ignorant thing to say. Many people chop up audio for various reasons. Maybe a drum break, maybe they bounce their synth and resample it or export a track with fx and chop it up, reverse a drum hit into another drum hit, chop up vocals etc. There are numerous reasons for having fades, and it is a basic and essential editing feature.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:49 pm

Personally I'm not too bothered by the lack of crossfades either, but I do see the importance and I do want them soon enough. The reason I'm guessing they aren't in there is the same reason they didn't make it into ableton for so long; that in an environment that's based on loops and midi rather than capturing linear performances where comping is a must it isn't central to the paradigm. The Bitwig's probably wanted to concentrate on the stuff that makes Bitwig what it is first, the kind of stuff that is worth posting a blurb about on their site and of course they have limited development time.

I should expect we will see it soon enough though. Bitwig has already shown care for the more traditional linear daw approach with the track based editing, extra editing views and tools etc. which makes perfect sense because people have been begging for ableton to work on that sort of stuff for years.

I really look forward to see if they can work in comping neatly; something like logic's swipe system would just be the bee's knees.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:53 pm

virtualmark wrote:That's quite an ignorant thing to say. Many people chop up audio for various reasons.

Wow. I was only giving a personal opinion.

I'm not even sure (asking, just asking) if the others even crossfade or overlap audio clips... Live, FLStudio, etc. Just saying it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me in the context of using a tool like this since I'd never mix in those things anyway and I'd do my final editing and mixing in something else anyway, something better designed for audio editing and mixing, that's all.

If I buy FLStudio it's because it's a great production tool, not because I think it's a great audio editor. I actually didn't say that everyone should agree with me on that or feel the same way about that as I do.

Sorry for being 'ignorant' by expressing a singular personal opinion on a web forum.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:00 pm

In Live there is crossfading. Not sure about FLS, couldn't find anything on how to do it with a quick google.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:02 pm

Ogopogo wrote:In Live there is crossfading. Not sure about FLS, couldn't find anything on how to do it with a quick google.

No clue either. I never edit any audio in FLS personally (I'm sure others do though) so I wouldn't know either way. I thought we were talking more about auto cross fades for edits and punches. For musical cross fades I think the morphing in BWS takes care of that doesn't it? Or maybe not, dunno.

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:12 pm

Crossfades are totally useful, but it means a lot of work to do a really good implementation of this feature for a non-linear DAW. You have to solve all the different editor tasks how to show and work on the material, and even more interesting and challenging: Transitions/fades between clip launcher clips on the non-linear side and how to solve this in a really good way.
We did not want to rush this and would like to give it the right amount of time to specify and implement it, so it is something for future versions.

As 1.0 is obviously more focussed on being an inspiring music creation tool, which i think the DAW scene is lacking more than editing DAWs, i think this decision was totally ok. Protools, Cubase and the likes are around for ages and do a great job when it comes to recording and editing. No need to reinvent the wheel in that department...

Cheers,
Dom

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:17 pm

LawrenceF wrote:
Ogopogo wrote:In Live there is crossfading. Not sure about FLS, couldn't find anything on how to do it with a quick google.
No clue either. I never edit any audio in FLS personally (I'm sure others do though) so I wouldn't know either way. I thought we were talking more about auto cross fades for edits and punches. For musical cross fades I think the morphing in BWS takes care of that doesn't it? Or maybe not, dunno.

What do you mean by morphing?

dom@bitwig wrote:Crossfades are totally useful, but it means a lot of work to do a really good implementation of this feature for a non-linear DAW. You have to solve all the different editor tasks how to show and work on the material, and even more interesting and challenging: Transitions/fades between clip launcher clips on the non-linear side and how to solve this in a really good way.
We did not want to rush this and would like to give it the right amount of time to specify and implement it, so it is something for future versions.

As 1.0 is obviously more focussed on being an inspiring music creation tool, which i think the DAW scene is lacking more than editing DAWs, i think this decision was totally ok. Protools, Cubase and the likes are around for ages and do a great job when it comes to recording and editing. No need to reinvent the wheel in that department...

Cheers,
Dom

From everything I've seen so far I'm pleased with what you guys prioritize and how you tackle features. I can't wait to grab it in 5 days and see how it grows in the future.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:22 pm

@Dom, have you all thought about comping at all? Just curious.

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:31 pm

Ogopogo wrote:@Dom, have you all thought about comping at all? Just curious.

Sure, and not even finished doing so

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:33 pm

good good good

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:40 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:...even more interesting and challenging: Transitions/fades between clip launcher clips on the non-linear side and how to solve this in a really good way...

I would never have guessed that this was needed.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:45 pm

Ogopogo wrote:What do you mean by morphing?

I thought I saw a video where audio clips playing and/or instrument parts playing where "morphing" (fading or cross fading between 3-4 parts) between each other in real time.

But I can't be sure of what I was looking at or if it even applies or is relevant to the other discussion... so... disregard.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:51 pm

I don't think that's in there, you may be thinking of the xy container device which is kind of like an instrument rack/layer that lets you set up four chains (one for each corner), and then morph between them by moving around the xy pad.

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:56 pm

Dom - thanks for the input here!

Personally, I am glad too that you guys have decided to take your time getting BWS right before distribution.

Although, I can admit, there has been some anxiety in camp awaiting BWS

Looking forward to being able to testing next week.

FWIW - while I can understand how a feature is crucial to some, the missing features in BWS are not going to be a deal breaker for me.

I will be happy though when per note expression becomes a standard feature

(HINT HINT)

I can live without crossfades

(But I do understand how this can be important to others that work a lot with audio clips!)

Happy Musiking!
dsan

virtualmark · Post by **virtualmark** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:58 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:Crossfades are totally useful, but it means a lot of work to do a really good implementation of this feature for a non-linear DAW. You have to solve all the different editor tasks how to show and work on the material, and even more interesting and challenging: Transitions/fades between clip launcher clips on the non-linear side and how to solve this in a really good way.
We did not want to rush this and would like to give it the right amount of time to specify and implement it, so it is something for future versions.

As 1.0 is obviously more focussed on being an inspiring music creation tool, which i think the DAW scene is lacking more than editing DAWs, i think this decision was totally ok. Protools, Cubase and the likes are around for ages and do a great job when it comes to recording and editing. No need to reinvent the wheel in that department...

Cheers,
Dom

Hi Dom, while you're here, could you confirm which features that you'll be adding in the future? And which version you think they'll be in? Things I'd like to know about that have been mentioned in this thread are:

VST multi outs
Support for Melodyne
REX Support
MIDI routing to other tracks
Group tracks
Custom key mappings and macros

Thanks.

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