Ultimate copy protection?

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Me and a friend did some brainstorming about copy protection on software and came up with this:

You download the demo version. It is the full blown
product, no bleeps ,restrictions what so ever.
The only thing it got is a big "DEMO" sign in the
user interface.

When you buy the product you´ll get access to download the real version without the "DEMO" sign.

That´s it! And here is how it works:

----------------------------------------------------

The bitmap part with the demo sign is encrypted in the dll file and placed in position using a small
code routine. This would prevent the "normal" user
to go into the file using any standard way to view
the resources and modify where he would need a patch
from a cracker to free up the space in the otherwise
normal bitmap.

-The cracker-

The cracker would realize quite quickly that there
isn´t any real challange to do this. Just find the
code that will access this bitmap space,remove it
and replace with the proper bitmap portion and re-save.

His work will be a standard move where the developer
do not do anything to hide the decrypter code ect.

Sooner or later the crackers would loose interest.
What happens then is that all the "wannabee" crackers
will start producing patches to show that they were
first. And in this battle they would sooner or later
start to add their own "tag" into this bitmap to
show "who made it".

-The crack user-

The crack user would go through all this trouble just to cover the fact that he didn´t pay for the software where the moral justification will get
even more stupid. He can of course use it by himself
but if he shows his stuff to anyone the "demo" sign
will create questions. Friends with the same
attitude will not bother but then again they were
never the target buyer group in the first place.

So he goes out on the net and tries to download a patch where he soon discovers that it is almost impossible to find a real patch that does not include a nasty tag or anything else.

And here the developer adds his own spam attacks
where he flood the internet with fake patches
to his own product since this will not harm the product itself since it is fully functional from
the start.

-Conclution-

The end result would be that it would be a mess to
get a "clean looking" software where the only reason
you do this is to show off to your paying friend
that always could ask for a proof anyway.

The developer can more activly prevent spreading
of cracks by spamming since it will not harm the product.

Crackers will loose interest and create an "anti movement" among themselves.

In the end the customer knows that the only place to
download the real version is from the true product page and all he needs is to pay.


any thoughts?

//Daniel :)

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The only fool proof scheme out there is not to publish your software. The result is you will not sell anything. Hackers will find a way around anything if they try.As a normal honest user I find copyprotection a great pain in the @ss. The Sonar way works the best for me. You get 3 CDs with the software which makes it a pain for the hackers to download. The extra content is worth the while, but not alway up there with the best, so if you want more, you can pay extra.

For any upgrades you must be registered. Don't know about the rest of the world, but here we get a registration code from the supplier. Only one user can register with that code. Sonar, like many other companies, tend to issue the first official release slightly bugged and to get the real Mc'Coy you have to download the upgrade. If you are registered it is no problem. If you have a cracked copy, you keep on posting at all the forums about your problems and get embarressed by WR for having a cracked copy. That works fine for me. Hassle-less for honest users.

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Sepheritoh wrote:You get 3 CDs with the software which makes it a pain for the hackers to download.
I asume you're talking about the Producer Edition? I got real exited there for a moment and nearly destroyed the digipack.
Anyway, it appears more and more software is released as DVD's.

Groet, Erik
Pop music delenda est.
Image

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tetraplan wrote:
Sepheritoh wrote:You get 3 CDs with the software which makes it a pain for the hackers to download.
I asume you're talking about the Producer Edition? I got real exited there for a moment and nearly destroyed the digipack.
Anyway, it appears more and more software is released as DVD's.

Groet, Erik
Yes. It's the PE I refer to - sorry I should have been specific there.

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Sepheritoh wrote:The Sonar way works the best for me. You get 3 CDs with the software which makes it a pain for the hackers to download.
9 of 10 people i know who have Sonar or Reason pirated it. With high speed connections now you can set the download of 3 CD's of content, go to sleep, and wake up with ready for you in the morning, and they just keep downloading until they have a working combination of discs. Or, they can just borrow the software from a friend. I have best friends who i pretty much preach to about piracy, and how they are killing the software companies they love so much, but almost nobody cares today. :?

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Sepheritoh wrote:You get 3 CDs with the software which makes it a pain for the hackers to download.
Right. Even better would be if a one-megabyte synth requires a huge number of tiny chunks of data for proper installation. Chunks which are scattered around and well integrated into a number of DVD's full of mostly unimportant data.

The game is how to make it as hard as possible to extract the essential bits from the unimportant. At least there shouldn't be a list where to find them.

It'll be a tough job (but as always not entirely impossible) for hackers to extract the required data and put them all in one small installation file for easy distribution.

I'd say go for 'distribution protection', not for copy protection.
Last edited by Timfonie on Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
The more I hang around at KVR the less music I make.

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I think the best copy protection is to make the software affordable. At least price/performance should be ok. Then there is no need to get a crack cause you don't care much about the money you spend...
Image
FLStudio - 24 Synths - 6 Effects - I am crazy

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Yup, so long as humans are unable to afford or dont want to pay for something there will always be this sort of crime, unless the said software is heavily dependent on a piece of hardware. Ddummers solution made me chuckle as it was based on his/her own philosophy of human nature, which I found questionable.

What I really wanted to ask though is how do you quantify that a particular copy protection has actually helped sales.

Based on my and friends past use of cracks, we had no intetion of buying 99% of what we downloaded as we couldnt afford it and hardly used any of it for any length of time anyway !! Now I can just about afford what i want so I pay for it. Ive got numerous cracks of Steinberg etc stuff from years ago but have no intention of buying any of their shit.

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the idea that large disks someone how act as copy protection is nonsense - the ENTIRE vienna pro libarary is available on edonkey and the rest

i do wonder if the 350 gig libarary that is coming might not be tho !

but the best copyprotection i know of is on powercore plugs

the disk you get merely takes your details and passes them to tc electronics - you then get a url for your personailsed download that will only work on that powercore

while crackers can get round this - if they miss just one peice of code then the owner who passed it on to them is in trouble - so who will spend £100s to lose the software so that some losers on p2p can get it for free

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ericj23 wrote:the idea that large disks someone how act as copy protection is nonsense - the ENTIRE vienna pro libarary is available on edonkey and the rest
Don't you agree such large a library puts up a serious treshold for anyone who wants to download it? Discouragement isn't the same as full protection, still it is a good way to limit copying and sharing.

I wonder how many people ever managed to download (most of) Vienna pro's library ...
... can't be that many. But maybe I'm naive :roll:
The more I hang around at KVR the less music I make.

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Timfonie wrote:I wonder how many people ever managed to download (most of) Vienna pro's library ...
yeah, but once one persons got it it just needs to be burnt and can be spread that way. Id say this was a perfect arrangement for distribution amongst friends and communities such as a University and even Ive got broadband these days !!

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I don't really think that pirated software is such a big threat to software developers. In most cases people who use pirated software only use the software because it is available to them for 'free'. They never had any intention of buying it, ever. So if no pirated version was available they would not use/buy the software. Not everyone using it for 'free' would otherwise be a customer.

The vast majority of the people who use pirated software are small time users who use it for a little while and then discard it again. Ofcourse there is a small group of 'proffesional users' who use pirated software and who buy it orginally if no pirated copy was available but I think that is just a very small percentage.

The best way to protect your software is to link it to an external/physical device. I would use a USB device which needs to be connected to the computer running the program. Make the usb device & the serial of the program liked to each other and non-exchangeable. Make sure that it sends data contiously to and from the usb device and I think you are home free.

But with that kind of protection I think you will lose more customers because of the protection than that you would lose to pirated software.

You can see that in copy-protected cds. They made them copy protected but instead of selling more units they actually sell a whole lot less! And not in the last place because they restrict people so much in the where & how they listen to the album the bought. Or I should actually start to say, they licence they bought to listen to the recorded material.
~leave through a door.~
http://www.eretsua.com

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austere wrote: The best way to protect your software is to link it to an external/physical device. I would use a USB device which needs to be connected to the computer running the program. Make the usb device & the serial of the program liked to each other and non-exchangeable. Make sure that it sends data contiously to and from the usb device and I think you are home free.
Do you have 20+ USB ports on your PC? :wink:

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well austere, there is much debate over this. I agree that a certain percentage of users are only using the software because they obtained it free. there is undoubtedly some users that did have intentions of buying the software until it was made free to them.

I think that copy protection should only be strict enough to keep "honest people honest", so if you are going to be in the software biz, you should know that you are going to see a large quantity of warez users if you app is popular. I am always more willing to support a vendor that uses fair and uninstrusive copy protection (e.g. cakewalk) than one who uses a completely unnecessary and overly complex form (e.g. Anteres)

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torhan wrote:
austere wrote: The best way to protect your software is to link it to an external/physical device. I would use a USB device which needs to be connected to the computer running the program. Make the usb device & the serial of the program liked to each other and non-exchangeable. Make sure that it sends data contiously to and from the usb device and I think you are home free.
Do you have 20+ USB ports on your PC? :wink:
I was aware of this problem... which is a problem that can be overcome by making a hub-like-thing for the device. But then ofcourse it must become a universal system. Anyway, I don't see much in my own idea but it would be a form of copy-protection. and one that will probably do the trick. But it is not very practicle one no. :)

S_A_P
there is undoubtedly some users that did have intentions of buying the software until it was made free to them.
I agree with you fully.
~leave through a door.~
http://www.eretsua.com

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