MAX/MSP can.philipc68 wrote:Out of curiousity, are there any other modular synths out there which can include homebrewed C/C++ code? I don't think Reaktor or Vaz can do this, right?
Philip
SynthEdit Survey - Breaking the Bias (?)
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- KVRAF
- 3745 posts since 29 Sep, 2002 from Killafornia
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- KVRian
- 1023 posts since 8 Apr, 2003 from Östersund
Thanks for this thread! Very interesting to read since i make synths in SynthEdit myself. Some of the thoughts and ideas and very good and I'm definately gonna have them in mind while developing my stuff.
About SE sounding bad, well OK a simple connection using default modules is likely not gonna have an impressive sound. However alot of the times it might still be useful. Take Synth1 as an example, it doesn't sound great on it's own but add some effects, put it in a mix and there you go. I also feel SE devs should take time to finetune parameters and make a default soundbank that shows the capabilities of the synth/effect.
The GUI issue is very true as well, however this is slowly changing. People are learning tricks and the subcontrol stuff in the new betas makes for alot more interesting stuff. I think SE GUI's are gonna improve alot the next 6 months.
The CPU issue is really not an issue with SE as i see it but with how connections are made. This is also a problem with commercial non SE synths though. Computers get faster which makes companies do synths that use more cpu instead of optimizing harder.
To me CPU usage is one of the main selling points in a synth or effect, because even if it doesn't sound good on its own it can at least give you a good sound to work with when the CPU usage is low. Again this is not just an SE issue though I think most software companies are very lazy when it comes to optimization.
As a small note i ran a test between Fabfilter One and my latest synth. One is monophonic synth that has one osc and a filter. When i played 2 polyphonic notes with 2 osc's running through distortion ringmod and filter my synth uses around the same amount of cpu as a filtered monophonic note on One. Sure One likely has a better osc and filter, but is it worth the more than 4x cpu increase?
Anyway, SE is great and I'm confident it's gonna show more an more of its quality as people are learning synthbuilding from the now veteran SE designers.
/Majken
About SE sounding bad, well OK a simple connection using default modules is likely not gonna have an impressive sound. However alot of the times it might still be useful. Take Synth1 as an example, it doesn't sound great on it's own but add some effects, put it in a mix and there you go. I also feel SE devs should take time to finetune parameters and make a default soundbank that shows the capabilities of the synth/effect.
The GUI issue is very true as well, however this is slowly changing. People are learning tricks and the subcontrol stuff in the new betas makes for alot more interesting stuff. I think SE GUI's are gonna improve alot the next 6 months.
The CPU issue is really not an issue with SE as i see it but with how connections are made. This is also a problem with commercial non SE synths though. Computers get faster which makes companies do synths that use more cpu instead of optimizing harder.
To me CPU usage is one of the main selling points in a synth or effect, because even if it doesn't sound good on its own it can at least give you a good sound to work with when the CPU usage is low. Again this is not just an SE issue though I think most software companies are very lazy when it comes to optimization.
As a small note i ran a test between Fabfilter One and my latest synth. One is monophonic synth that has one osc and a filter. When i played 2 polyphonic notes with 2 osc's running through distortion ringmod and filter my synth uses around the same amount of cpu as a filtered monophonic note on One. Sure One likely has a better osc and filter, but is it worth the more than 4x cpu increase?
Anyway, SE is great and I'm confident it's gonna show more an more of its quality as people are learning synthbuilding from the now veteran SE designers.
/Majken
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experimental.crow experimental.crow https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6258
- KVRAF
- 6895 posts since 9 Mar, 2003 from the bridge of sighs
bought the m-42 ...
very nice indeed ...
xoxos stuff twisted , and original ...
JackR doing some very nice work ...
Ugo deserves mention ...
there are many others ...
synth edit still considered in beta ...
some room for improvement still ...
i'll admit to having had some bias , but i'm coming around ...
in the end ... it's the sound that will sell ...
very nice indeed ...
xoxos stuff twisted , and original ...
JackR doing some very nice work ...
Ugo deserves mention ...
there are many others ...
synth edit still considered in beta ...
some room for improvement still ...
i'll admit to having had some bias , but i'm coming around ...
in the end ... it's the sound that will sell ...
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
The best thing SE has done is that it's given us a lot of niche market tools.
I was using some of Oli Larkins' plugins last night. I can't think of anything else like dronebox out there. I was also trying out Topaz's Midichaos, and it too fills a need otherwise unfilled - essentially a midi pitch LFO, great for synth playing and a lot more simple than using loopback drivers.
The only other way to get a lot of these plugins would be to use a modular synth and patch it up yourself. A lot of folk don't seem to be game for that, so this seems the next best thing.
I would think musicians would be embracing SE, since it gives them a whole slew of new, innovative and useful stuff to work with.
Cheers,
Steve
I was using some of Oli Larkins' plugins last night. I can't think of anything else like dronebox out there. I was also trying out Topaz's Midichaos, and it too fills a need otherwise unfilled - essentially a midi pitch LFO, great for synth playing and a lot more simple than using loopback drivers.
The only other way to get a lot of these plugins would be to use a modular synth and patch it up yourself. A lot of folk don't seem to be game for that, so this seems the next best thing.
I would think musicians would be embracing SE, since it gives them a whole slew of new, innovative and useful stuff to work with.
Cheers,
Steve
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- KVRAF
- 4749 posts since 15 Jul, 2001 from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K
BINGO,
Synthedit is not just about synths.
Synthedit is not just about synths.
shamann wrote:The best thing SE has done is that it's given us a lot of niche market tools.
I was using some of Oli Larkins' plugins last night. I can't think of anything else like dronebox out there. I was also trying out Topaz's Midichaos, and it too fills a need otherwise unfilled - essentially a midi pitch LFO, great for synth playing and a lot more simple than using loopback drivers.
The only other way to get a lot of these plugins would be to use a modular synth and patch it up yourself. A lot of folk don't seem to be game for that, so this seems the next best thing.
I would think musicians would be embracing SE, since it gives them a whole slew of new, innovative and useful stuff to work with.
Cheers,
Steve
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 5 Feb, 2004 from Nashville, TN
I like freeware stuff, I have synthedit on my pc, I use it from time to time.
But as others have pointed out, ever since SE came out, every joe blow with some time on his hands and a little webspace fancies himself a plugin developer now. Not a slam against SE developers, but there are a few really good ones and a whole lot of amateurs who just slap an oscillator through a filter, make a pretty GUI and pass it off as something worth our time and money.
I mean, look, it's not THAT HARD to code a vst if you're serious about developing plugins. If I pay money for a product, I expect support for that product. I expect it to work, and if it doesn't, the guy who got my money better make it work. What happens if SE gets bugs in it (it IS still beta, don't forget), and these guys selling SE plugins are distributing buggy VST's? What are you gonna tell your customers? "sorry, synthedit has a bug, there's nothing I can do about it"? The guys who are coding their plugins can at least go back and fix it.
There are some synthedit plugins I like, but I don't have time to dl every last SE plugin that someone slaps together and check it out. If something gets a lot of positive reviews, I usually grab it. My plugin folder is bursting at the seams as it is.
But as others have pointed out, ever since SE came out, every joe blow with some time on his hands and a little webspace fancies himself a plugin developer now. Not a slam against SE developers, but there are a few really good ones and a whole lot of amateurs who just slap an oscillator through a filter, make a pretty GUI and pass it off as something worth our time and money.
I mean, look, it's not THAT HARD to code a vst if you're serious about developing plugins. If I pay money for a product, I expect support for that product. I expect it to work, and if it doesn't, the guy who got my money better make it work. What happens if SE gets bugs in it (it IS still beta, don't forget), and these guys selling SE plugins are distributing buggy VST's? What are you gonna tell your customers? "sorry, synthedit has a bug, there's nothing I can do about it"? The guys who are coding their plugins can at least go back and fix it.
There are some synthedit plugins I like, but I don't have time to dl every last SE plugin that someone slaps together and check it out. If something gets a lot of positive reviews, I usually grab it. My plugin folder is bursting at the seams as it is.
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- Banned
- 590 posts since 20 Jan, 2003
it works and fits , or not ! i think i don´t have the right to say "you this or that" , just because It doesn´t fit on my needs ... even to the ones just looking for "fame" ... do I have a life or what ? 
English is not my language btw
English is not my language btw
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- KVRist
- 399 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from looking for my glasses again...
I would have thought that more people would be pointing out Superwave Performer. I bought the Superwave bundle at one of their 50% off deals and it sounds great to me. But I'm just a guitar player who likes classic and prog rock so what do I know? CPU usage can get kinda high if you start tweaking certain parameters, but you can always get your sound and then freeze the track. Is there some kind of bias against Superwave? Just wondering...
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- KVRian
- 574 posts since 6 Jan, 2003 from Somewhere between ))o Left and Right o((
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- KVRian
- 574 posts since 6 Jan, 2003 from Somewhere between ))o Left and Right o((
Woops!
wrong link...
Check this :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synthedit ... sage/16727
We need more module developers! We need more Jeff's to work on SynthEdit!
wrong link...
Check this :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synthedit ... sage/16727
We need more module developers! We need more Jeff's to work on SynthEdit!
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- KVRist
- 127 posts since 18 Feb, 2004 from United Kingdom
Genius might be going a bit far but yes, it's all about the simplicity.quincy wrote:I thought, on the recommendation of the laser guided muff wiggling one, that i'd download the demo of fat-ass BCG synth.
And i realised that its simplicity is its genius. A small number of parameters, simple to use, and capable of huge variety with a few tweaks and the built-in FX.
£15 - bargain!
There's another fat-ass synth on the way too, it's called "Biatch" and it's a sort of e-piano type FM thingy. It's been a few months in development now but should be ready soon (when I'm totally happy with it
).Thanks for the kind words folks!
If anyone else wants to check out the BCG demo it's online at:
http://fat-ass.tk/
The Emusician review can be found here:
http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_bargain ... s_delight/
Again, thanks!
BeatBurner is now free...
http://codeaudio.com
http://codeaudio.com
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- KVRist
- 425 posts since 16 Aug, 2002 from state college pa
there has never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever been a SE plug that i thought was amazing enough to drop money on. i have 2 Se plugs on my HD S.F.U.M and invader. i think that se plugs are good for weird noise makers. super wave is a very good sounding synth but its crushes my cpu.
maybe its just not a mature enough app yet. i still incourage ppl to experiment with it. just not for me atm.
maybe its just not a mature enough app yet. i still incourage ppl to experiment with it. just not for me atm.
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- addled muppet weed
- 111290 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
maybe its time to upgrade your cpu
superwave barely touches me
superwave barely touches me
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- Banned
- 6127 posts since 1 Apr, 2004 from Et in Arcadia Ego
shit man..before I smashed my powerbook the synth edit stuff was junk in my eyes, except for like the Land of Cockaigne stuff. I rememebr I installed Virtual PC on my macintosh JUST so I could load those plugs & geek at the beautiful interfaces.
Well, my mac hit the wall doing 70mph, & I wound up with a PC. I'd say close to 2/5ths of my vst folder is SE stuff, & I dig the hell out of what gets made using it. Odo, Ugo, Tim & Algo, Krakli, EVM, Jack, even Superwave, whom I despise as a company, these guys give ANY standard vst dev a run for thier money afaic..& I particularly enjoy supporting the SE devs, cause I wanna see SE get taken to the next level. I was a loud voice against SE here this time last year, & I've since eaten my crow & even liked it (with some salt of course)
Reaktor will always be my favorite enviornment, but with time, I am POSITIVE there will be no difference between SE & non-SE plugs in terms of respect, much less sound quality.
Now, QUALITY CONTROL is a different subject altogether...but everyone here knows what I mean by that, so no use getting into it.
Well, my mac hit the wall doing 70mph, & I wound up with a PC. I'd say close to 2/5ths of my vst folder is SE stuff, & I dig the hell out of what gets made using it. Odo, Ugo, Tim & Algo, Krakli, EVM, Jack, even Superwave, whom I despise as a company, these guys give ANY standard vst dev a run for thier money afaic..& I particularly enjoy supporting the SE devs, cause I wanna see SE get taken to the next level. I was a loud voice against SE here this time last year, & I've since eaten my crow & even liked it (with some salt of course)
Reaktor will always be my favorite enviornment, but with time, I am POSITIVE there will be no difference between SE & non-SE plugs in terms of respect, much less sound quality.
Now, QUALITY CONTROL is a different subject altogether...but everyone here knows what I mean by that, so no use getting into it.