Finally: Venom VB-303 v1.00

[adenozin]

Hi ! I've been encountering a weird bug with vb on FL11 recently. It worked very well for months but now everytime I load an instance of the plugin the screen stays empty (no text string) which apparently means it cannot load the default sequence.

That wouldn't be a problem if the plugin didn't totally reboot every time the host starts ("NONseq booting" message) which means that whatever I make the sequencer is going to be filled with random events when I have to stop/start, rendering it pretty much unusable in most situations.

I've tried to reinstall the plugin, to fiddle with every options I could find, to downgrade FL... nothing.

I realised that I only run into this issue when I try to open a new instance of vb, previously saved instances open/work fine (the screen is still empty but at least the sequencer doesn't reboot all the time). So the only solution I could find was to save the wrapper state of previous projects and load it instead of loading the vsti by itself. I was thinking it might have something to do with some default settings of the wrapper that might have changed but every option available on the gui is the same.

Does anyone have any idea about what is going on here ? I'd really like to be able to continue using this baby normally (I fear the temp solution with the wrapper state might not be reliable). Despite that, passed the honey moon phase and vb still rocks

ps : i'm going to post this on IL forums as well

edit : btw disabling "reset plugin on transport" fixes the issue for the session, meaning the plugin doesn't reboot when i stop/play but it does reboot when the project is loaded

[antto]

the screen itself is not very consistent on init, in some situations it's cleared, and in some it holds the initial text (booting...) but fails to clear it afterwards

the screen works via GUI communication which potentially is different from DAW to DAW
however, the sequencer memory itself should be consistent

the sequencer reboots when the plugin is (re)started
this is of course unavoidable when you (re)load a project, or load a new instance of the plugin.. or if the host has to change sampling rate or other similar stuff

some hosts may reset the plugins on Play/Stop as an effective way to make them stop outputing any audio (think of synths/fx which have long release tails, reverbs, delay lines..)

vb303 most importantly has to reload it's sequencer memory after a reboot (patterns and tracks)
if that doesn't work - it's a serious bug then
the screen itself isn't a severe issue since it fixes itself on the following update (press play/stop for example, and it'll update)

[adenozin]

Hi Antto thanks for the reply.

Maybe I should have been clearer. What I mean by "reboot" is that the sequencer actually reverts to the default bank (default.nsm or fills it up randomly when I delete it, as it should) every time I load the project.

So let's say I program a sequence, if I save then reload the project the sequence will be replaced by the default one and the one I saved in the project will be lost. I really don't think that's what is supposed to happen since all my former projects reload their respective sequences properly and the "wrapped version" works fine as well (meaning the sequence is saved and loaded).

[HYPNAGOGIA]

the screen itself isn't a severe issue since it fixes itself on the following update (press play/stop for example, and it'll update)

I wish that worked for the invisible knobs. Any idea on how to fix that?

[antto]

oh?
that's not supposed to happen.

on init, the sequencer reads the vst memory from the preset
then, depending on one flag in that memory, it decides whether to accept that whole memory or not
this is how the sequencer knows whether the memory is the "initial" preset (when you load an instance for the very first time) or a reloaded project preset (which was previously saved)

so the only time it would reject the memory and generate random data instead (or load default.nsm) is if this flag is set to zero or so
the built-in initial presets have the flag set to zero, after which, the first thing the sequencer does is to set the flag to 1, so that if you save the preset from now on - next time it will "accept" the preset memory instead of rejecting it

so, in your case, the most terrible thing seems to happen
the only thing i can think of is.. the sequencer sends the memory to the GUI thread from where it's actually saved, and this requires some time to complete

so, if you have just modified the memory (for example you just escape from pitch-mode to the main menu) - at the end of the audio block, the dsp thread would send packets of the dirty area of the memory to the gui thread, and when they are received - they'll be updated

before they get updated - saving the DAW project will contain the previous data

thus, big audio buffer length + slow dsp<->gui thread communication + fast user interaction could possible produce that effect

but i still doubt it's that..

another thing that you should watch for.. could something be changing the preset/program of the plugin for some weird reason..?

[HYPNAGOGIA]

I'm not sure what all that means really, but these invisible knobs happen as soon as I insert the instrument... no preset/program change... nothing. Just insert Venom, and the only knobs I have are: tempo, track patt/bank, mode and volume. Every other knob is gone, but all the buttons seems to be there. I might note that the old version of Venom did not have that problem.

The Pattern and Memory buttons don't seem do anything at all, and switching Sync Mode seems a bit difficult (it tends to revert back, have to change it several times before it stays in one place).

And, as much as I'm sure you don't like hearing this, but can you please remove that code check for MIDI Play? It's tedious to do, can't even get it to work most of the time. Seems kind of like these measures to ensure people would use it the way the original 303 works is just doing more harm than good, which really is a shame, because it seems to be an awesome synth.

[antto]

my previous post was addressed to adenozin

i know about the missing knobs issue

sadly, i don't think i'll waste more time with vb303
it works in the DAWs i use, on my current machine, so i'll use it while i can
i've moved on to developing other projects which make more sense

vb303 was an exercise, and an experiment...
to see if i can make something close to the original, including the sequencer... and to see if people would still want it at such a "price"

i guess learnt my lesson now

[HYPNAGOGIA]

my previous post was addressed to adenozin

Oh, sorry then.

i know about the missing knobs issue

sadly, i don't think i'll waste more time with vb303
it works in the DAWs i use, on my current machine, so i'll use it while i can
i've moved on to developing other projects which make more sense

I see. Guess that's an answer why most of the issues went unaddressed.

vb303 was an exercise, and an experiment...
to see if i can make something close to the original, including the sequencer... and to see if people would still want it at such a "price"

i guess learnt my lesson now

The point isn't to shove certain ways down the peoples' throats, but to give them the choice to use it creatively in any way they want. Some people might find it hard to use the onboard sequencer and would prefer to use the sequencer of their own DAWs, but it's nice that it's there, so people can still learn how it was originally done if they choose to do so. And you've accomplished that with great details. You've given us a synth that sounds great, at the "price" that cannot be matched - which is most generous of you. We'd still want to see this awesome synth rise above it's current flaws, being only v1.0 it's kind of still in infancy stage. This could have been so much more.

Shame you won't continue your work on this. I can only guess you wanted us to be test subjects for this experiment, and I hope it worked in your favor. I can only wish you good luck in your future endeavours, something that would make more sense than this awesome recreation... but if it is to be something of a commercial nature (I'm only guessing that would make more sense and not be a complete waste of your time), I would like to offer something for your consideration: give a listen to people's wishes, when they complain or when they criticize your work; don't take it to heart and try to improve upon it. It will take you a long way to your success.

Well, with that said, being that it will no longer be developed, I can now make my exit and unsubscribe from this topic.

All the best.

[Touch The Universe]

Does this synth work in orion, last time I tried I couldn't get it to or I remember it being tricky to work with?

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Does this synth work in orion, last time I tried I couldn't get it to or I remember it being tricky to work with?

Well, it works, to a certain degree... as long as you're willing to only work with its sequencer and not really be able to change the most important knobs around (like tune, cutoff and resonance, etc) since they're invisible. They are still there, you can move them IF you click at the right spot... they're just invisible. The old version worked much better.

[antto]

you have to understand that it's made with an ancient version of SE (v1.0xx, with SDK2) which is not supported of course.
SE has changed completely since then (its SDK too), and the plugins made with v1.0xx can only break in the future with newer versions of the OS and what not (especially more exotic ones, like vb303 which barely works to begin with)

so, there's no point... when it's bound to stop working completely on modern machines very soon

and the more i keep poking into the TB-303 sequencer (as i'm working on n0nx0x2) - the more i see that the vb303 sequencer has so many little flaws, so it needs YET another rewrite - the horror

so, it's more likely to rewrite the whole thing one day in the very very distant future using a plugin framework, than to recompile another version of vb303 with just some bugfixes


i'm also a user, i also have to enter the 4-digit code (and sometimes more than 3 times) when i want to use midiplay mode (for whatever ugly reason)

[HYPNAGOGIA]

you have to understand that it's made with an ancient version of SE (v1.0xx, with SDK2) which is not supported of course.
SE has changed completely since then (its SDK too), and the plugins made with v1.0xx can only break in the future with newer versions of the OS and what not (especially more exotic ones, like vb303 which barely works to begin with)

so, there's no point... when it's bound to stop working completely on modern machines very soon

and the more i keep poking into the TB-303 sequencer (as i'm working on n0nx0x2) - the more i see that the vb303 sequencer has so many little flaws, so it needs YET another rewrite - the horror

so, it's more likely to rewrite the whole thing one day in the very very distant future using a plugin framework, than to recompile another version of vb303 with just some bugfixes

This is a good explanation. Thank you.
We hope you will get to give it another go some day, and until then it will be a great synth for those more fortunate to be able to work with it. For us less fortunate, well... we'll be waiting.

i'm also a user, i also have to enter the 4-digit code (and sometimes more than 3 times) when i want to use midiplay mode (for whatever ugly reason)

Ok, this part I don't really understand. Didn't that bother you enough to change it? You made the synth, you could've done it from the start - or at least from the first inclination that it's not working very well.

[antto]

don't be waiting...

a TB-303 vst (or whatever) plugin is tough to do (the way i wanted), and vb303 is a living example
at the end of the day, it really needs a dedicated physical controller
the computer only has a mouse.. well there's stuff like touchscreens now, but i hate touchscreens
so my point is.. for a 303 interface - you need the buttons, and that just doesn't translate easily to a plugin
then, you also have to have knobs..

so with those problems, it's down to making compromises
1) break the authentic sequencer interface illusion, and make a normal 2014 plugin-friendly interface
2) break the whole thing and and make it a "brainless" midi-module
or
3) make a dedicated controller for it with all the buttons, leds, knobs

that's what i see.. and i really don't like #1 and just hate #2
while #3 is acceptable BUT it's not worth it really ... who'll make such a controller.. and it might cost more than a full-blown analog 303 clone (x0xb0x)

so.. don't wait for "vb303 mkII" ... it's not gonna happen
as i've said before, this is not the end of TB-303 emulations, new and better things are coming.. (hint: ABL3)

about the 4-digit code.. i meant that there are things that annoy me in vb303, and i haven't fixed them
recompiling the whole thing is NOT easy (there were tricky things which i forgot, it's been almost a year), that's why i haven't done it, nor want to
midiplay mode was needed during the developement, and i was going to remove it at the end, but someone convinced me to leave it in, so i decided to leave it but make it annoying to use with the code
now, i've used midiplay mode a few times to debug stuff related to my x0x firmware (so.. No, i don't use midiplay mode in a track) and thus i also have to enter the code like everyone else, i don't mind it, i've gone thru much worse things than a 4-digit code

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Fair enough, you've made your point. Though I don't agree with it, but it's your plugin... who am I to say how you've envisioned it to work.

To me, it seems like you wanted to make it more as a live instrument, rather than something that could be easily put into song arrangement - which I think most people wanted to be able to do. I mean, why else would you want to annoy people with the code for MIDI Play? Personally, I think it could have had the best of both - great built-in sequencer for when you want to do it live (and I think most MIDI controllers would suffice for that task, doesn't necessarily need a dedicated one), and good MIDI support with accents (achieved with velocity) and slides (via note length) for when you want to put it in your track. On top of that, it has an incredible sound... and ABL3 may be better and whatnot, but it certainly can't beat the price of VB303

In any way, this whole discussion is moot now, being that you have no desires to waste your time anymore. Personally, I won't wait for anything you release. I mean, leaving the whole "it's too old to work on it" thing aside, the simple fact you were willing to annoy us... well, that by itself is telling very much. From experience, most developers would want to fix the issues their users have, but oh well. So, I'll steer clear. Others might wait for more of your plugins. Time will tell.

Be well.

[kritikon]

So the fact he's released all his hard work for free doesn't make you feel like you're being a tosser?

I mean, leaving the whole "it's too old to work on it" thing aside, the simple fact you were willing to annoy us... well, that by itself is telling very much. From experience, most developers would want to fix the issues their users have, but oh well.

Because, after all, it's all about you. You paid no money so of course he should be catering to your every wish. Your a customer, right.

Errr actually no, you're not a customer. You got free stuff.