Once again the common question, what kind of sound card ...

[Stupid American Pig]

IMHO Anything from terratec is not going to be higher quality. I have such a sour taste in my mouth from terratec. I had a DMX 6 fire. When I first got it, I thought it was great, until I realized the drivers were not multi client. I learned to live with it, but noticed that with every updated driver version, I kept having to INCREASE latency. When I first got the card, it would run at 256 - 336 samples no problem
as the driver progressed I found myself bumping it up to 512 or even 1024 samples. They are trying to use a unified driver model that will support all of their cards with the same chipset on them.

Aside from driver issues, there were some quality issues as well. My card developed a grounding issue, that I could never truly solve. I would get sporadic pops and clicks when recording- even if I used the optical input. The clicks were 1-2 samples long and sounded like static electricity sparks. to round out the hard ware issues, the break out boxes RCA inputs were scratchy and flimsy.

I would recommend an Audigy 2 platinum over any terratec. I feel as though I threw away 250 bucks on this card.

[Durk]

IMHO Anything from terratec is not going to be higher quality. I have such a sour taste in my mouth from terratec. I had a DMX 6 fire. When I first got it, I thought it was great, until I realized the drivers were not multi client. I learned to live with it, but noticed that with every updated driver version, I kept having to INCREASE latency. When I first got the card, it would run at 256 - 336 samples no problem
as the driver progressed I found myself bumping it up to 512 or even 1024 samples. They are trying to use a unified driver model that will support all of their cards with the same chipset on them.

Aside from driver issues, there were some quality issues as well. My card developed a grounding issue, that I could never truly solve. I would get sporadic pops and clicks when recording- even if I used the optical input. The clicks were 1-2 samples long and sounded like static electricity sparks. to round out the hard ware issues, the break out boxes RCA inputs were scratchy and flimsy.

I would recommend an Audigy 2 platinum over any terratec. I feel as though I threw away 250 bucks on this card.

Thanks for sharing your experiences! I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with the DMX 6Fire. Hmm I think I'm moving even further away from Terratec products...

Does anybody know if the other listed cards (from E-MU, ESI, M-Audio, etc) have multi-client drivers?

[MelodyMan]

ESI-cards are multi-client. They had these drivers long before other manufacturers did, i think in 2000 already. These drivers are also special because you can digitally, thus internally, record between applications with the "Direct Wire" feature.

[Durk]

ESI-cards are multi-client. They had these drivers long before other manufacturers did, i think in 2000 already. These drivers are also special because you can digitally, thus internally, record between applications with the "Direct Wire" feature.

Hmm, sounds cool! I need to find a review of the ESI Juli@...

[MelodyMan]

Check out thisreview of the Wamirack 192x. It uses the same PCI-card as the Waveterminal 192x, but this one has a break-out box. The Juli has not been reviewed yet, i think.

[daktaris]

i'm also on the go for new soundcard (pci). looking for high quality, good snr, plain in/out (balanced), low latencies, el-cheapo pricetag (under €200). thinned out alternatives to 3 from which i'm gonna choose:

- ESI Juli@
- Echo MiaMIDI
- EMU 1212M

it's prolly going to be that ESI card since it's the cheapest of the bunch but still of very good quality afaik. anyone here who bought it already? How do you like the card performance overall, any problems occured yet? i hope there's some reviews coming soon.

[harry_palmer]

I went for the EMU 1212m.

I got mine for about £125 GBP, special Digital Village saturday price.

The converters are top notch. The best seen on a sound card to date.

Plus you get the onboard card efx. You can run these as VST plugins (effectively) by using the little bridging plugin.

Plus you can extend the card by adding the breakout box and thus upgrade it to the 1802M.

Plus if you haven't got a sampler you can upgrade to get the EmulatorX software at any point in the foochure.

I haven't tested out the true multiclient ability other than running cubase and winamp at the same time. But see no reason why it isn't. I have to say the ASIO routing is very good, allowing you to bus things all over the shop, and have multiple ASIO ins outs.

The reviewer in SOS said it was the best card he'd seen ever.

The ESI Juli@ card just looks like the Waveterminal 192L with midi expansion board added into it.


If you don't like the 1212M then take it back and exchange it. When I went to the shop to get a new sound card I wasn't too sure what to get, I was thinking of getting the ESI 192L. It was only when the guy in DV said get the 1212M. It was only £10 more than I planned to spend plus you get all the extra EFX.

its a matter for yourself

Harry

[Durk]

I went for the EMU 1212m.

I got mine for about £125 GBP, special Digital Village saturday price.

The converters are top notch. The best seen on a sound card to date.

Plus you get the onboard card efx. You can run these as VST plugins (effectively) by using the little bridging plugin.

Plus you can extend the card by adding the breakout box and thus upgrade it to the 1802M.

Plus if you haven't got a sampler you can upgrade to get the EmulatorX software at any point in the foochure.

I haven't tested out the true multiclient ability other than running cubase and winamp at the same time. But see no reason why it isn't. I have to say the ASIO routing is very good, allowing you to bus things all over the shop, and have multiple ASIO ins outs.

The reviewer in SOS said it was the best card he'd seen ever.

The ESI Juli@ card just looks like the Waveterminal 192L with midi expansion board added into it.


If you don't like the 1212M then take it back and exchange it. When I went to the shop to get a new sound card I wasn't too sure what to get, I was thinking of getting the ESI 192L. It was only when the guy in DV said get the 1212M. It was only £10 more than I planned to spend plus you get all the extra EFX.

its a matter for yourself

Harry

Thanks for sharing!

About the multi-client ability... Running Cubase and Winamp at the same is pretty easy, even my SBLive does that without problems. To make it more difficult, can you try to run two ASIO applications at the same time?

[Durk]

Check out thisreview of the Wamirack 192x. It uses the same PCI-card as the Waveterminal 192x, but this one has a break-out box. The Juli has not been reviewed yet, i think.

Hmm too bad. Just like Daktaris I'm waiting for a review of the Juli@, hopefully in comparison to the E-MU 1212M. For now, I have to do it with the Warirack review...

[harry_palmer]

Thanks for sharing!

About the multi-client ability... Running Cubase and Winamp at the same is pretty easy, even my SBLive does that without problems. To make it more difficult, can you try to run two ASIO applications at the same time?

I'll try running Cubase SX2 and Orion Pro at the same time, I could try running Reaktor4 and Pro-53 instandalone modes too.

I really don't think it will be a problem because in Cubase I know you can select what ASIO outputs you want. Also within the EMU mixer, should be able to stream the ASIO output of one app into another app through the ASIO routing.

Just exaclty what kind of multi-client ability are you looking for? ie runnig what apps etc, and streaming what to what.

Harry

[MelodyMan]

Some test-results for the ESI Juli over here.

[Rellik]

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but I need to ask... what exactly is it that one sound-card can do better than another? Using the kX drivers, I can get relatively low latency even on my SBLive! (thanks for the tip about those, whoever posted them, they are quite low latency). Then there's 'audio quality'. I never dreamed that one soundcard would actually *sound* different than another! Please forgive my ignorance and for posting this general question in Durk's thread.

[anopenscroll]

Plug your mike into the Mic in on your Live! and record something... Then plug it into a 1212m, and you'll cry when you hear the difference in noise level

[Durk]

Plug your mike into the Mic in on your Live! and record something... Then plug it into a 1212m, and you'll cry when you hear the difference in noise level

Hmm, but you'll need a pre-amp for the 1212M, don't you?

[harry_palmer]

I did some multi-client testing with the 1212m last night. And yes it is!!!

I was running CubaseSX, Reaktor4 standalone and Pro53 alone all on there own seperate ASIO channel into the DSP mixer.
You can also do ASIO routing of the output of one program into the input of another program. Just for testing I was able to run the output of the Pro53 into the input of CubaseSX. In reality you never want to do this with the Pro-53, it is just proof of concept.

So yes the 1212m is multi-client. One thing to note though is that ASIO channels cannot be shared, but the 1212m supports up to 16 pairs of ASIO channels so it is not a problem. I guess this is the same for any soundcard with ASIO drivers just that some have less channels.

Re: 1212m mic preamps.
The 1212m doesn't have a mic preamp, but you can insert a Trim control on the channel to boost the gain that extra amount, this is a bit noisier than using a proper mic-preamp. But if you want the mic preamp then you should splash out for the breakout box of the 1820M or just get an external mic pre-amp, like one of the little Behringer ones, these are pretty cheap.

Harry