KVR Audio

BMoore · Post by **BMoore** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:14 am

What a s**t stain this thread continues to be.

Igro · Post by **Igro** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:57 pm

Please ban cats here already, seriously. WTF? Mods, Please create an entirely new forum for catophiles.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:43 pm

[DELETED]

humanbeingbeing · Post by **humanbeingbeing** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:13 pm

TheoM wrote:
hibidy wrote:It really just tells the story we already know. Some things are good about bitwig, some things live does better. There is likely not going to be a mass exodus from live for users that are happy with it.

Problem is, i honestly predict that many will leave live and go to BW *solely* for audibly working pdc. Now it's not a great implementation of PDC but at the very least rhythm FX and automation is apparently in time. But that's ableton's problem for not fixing it. I also honestly believe that if ableton matched the BW PDC (how hard can it be when upon release BW pdc was identical to ableton?) hardly anyone would leave live for BW. Time will tell, but i implore ableton to be sensible about this and at least do a pdc band aid fix before the big re write.

This is an interesting idea, I've been thinking about this ever since Bitwig announced they had this compensation feature (so a long time), at one point I considered that all I needed from Ableton was automation compensation... and on some level, considering how much work I've done with Ableton (over 10 years daily productions), this is true, but as time has went on, I've thought about it more and obviously I've got more comfortable with Bitwig.... there is more wrong with Ableton than a simple feature, I think the whole debacle revealed that Ableton have become complacent, arrogant even in that they have stopped communicating properly with their customers, but they've also ignored feature requests for years, all of us involved have found this excruciating and there is more, at least for me, Ableton created a kind of utopian notion of what electronic music could be, I expected it to revolutionize live performance, but it never did, mostly everyone uses CDJs still and I think it's because Ableton over the years has just had so many problems with stability. It is actually pretty stable now, but now the problem is that they are no longer innovating, there was a period when Ableton were kicking ass, when they introduced midi, they seemed to be so on the ball, and ahead of the curve... but that all slowed down, Live 9 was a huge disappointment IMO... and that release really opened my eyes to the underlying issues with Live and made me reconsider all those years when I loved the program... I can't imagine what other corners they are cutting...

IMHO Ableton can't fix their PDC issues without rewriting and as they are rewriting right this minute, I wouldn't be surprised if their engine is more like Bitwig's... obviously I don't know the workings of these things really, but it seems to me like Ableton has some multiple engine thing going on where automation runs in time separate processes, which was probably a great idea in the early days because it makes development easier... now they've got a codebase totally bound to this concept... BTW, Bitwig did not have the same issue as Live with PDC when it came out... its complicated to explain/fully understand but their bug was more like a chain issue, and that's why it was fixed in a day (2 days?)... I believe Bitwig's PDC issues are more niggling and based on the fact that they have just released to the public, day 1 bugs are common in development, they are just realizing all the small issues plugins and such have, and trying to accommodate them.

...back to Live, if they had full PDC tomorrow I probably still wouldn't go back, they lost my trust... but we'll see with version 10, the cool thing about having someone like Bitwig exist is that Live needs to start being competitive... it's still possible that their real innovators actually did leave a long time ago to form that competitor... but who knows... the apps are always going to be different, I'm already feeling a leaning that Bitwig is better suited to studio work, but as with Live, they are so close to getting all the bases covered, I really hope they keep their foot to the pedal and drive it home.... we are almost programmed to expect less because of Ableton's track record...

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:25 pm

TheoM wrote: (how hard can it be when upon release BW pdc was identical to ableton?) hardly anyone would leave live for BW.

No, it wasn't identical at all. It had already been handled but there was a bug with rhythmic devices after plug-ins with latency. And they always said that it was a bug.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:32 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
TheoM wrote: (how hard can it be when upon release BW pdc was identical to ableton?) hardly anyone would leave live for BW.
No, it wasn't identical at all. It had already been handled but there was a bug with rhythmic devices after plug-ins with latency. And they always said that it was a bug.

+1

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:39 pm

Igro wrote:Please ban cats here already, seriously. WTF? Mods, Please create an entirely new forum for catophiles.

Why Igro, why??!

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:56 pm

hibidy wrote:
Igro wrote:Please ban cats here already, seriously. WTF? Mods, Please create an entirely new forum for catophiles.
Why Igro, why??!

He's alergic probably , he seems fine about the sausage though ?

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:03 pm

You have to respect the "cat." Like it or not (and it seems to be a minority) it's a part of bitwig history. It's oddly strange that as rarely as it happens now that it still bugs people so much.

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:03 pm

Especially since their company forum is up and running...
a little fun here and there is good for health.

outsidesys · Post by **outsidesys** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:06 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
TheoM wrote: (how hard can it be when upon release BW pdc was identical to ableton?) hardly anyone would leave live for BW.
No, it wasn't identical at all. It had already been handled but there was a bug with rhythmic devices after plug-ins with latency. And they always said that it was a bug.
+1

In case you missed it, this guy has done a video comparing Automation & PDC between Live & Bitwig:

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:07 pm

glokraw wrote:Especially since their company forum is up and running...
a little fun here and there is good for health.

That's what I thought, but hey, everyone is different.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:08 pm

outsidesystems wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
TheoM wrote: (how hard can it be when upon release BW pdc was identical to ableton?) hardly anyone would leave live for BW.
No, it wasn't identical at all. It had already been handled but there was a bug with rhythmic devices after plug-ins with latency. And they always said that it was a bug.
+1
In case you missed it, this guy has done a video comparing Automation & PDC between Live & Bitwig:

I'm scared to watch it

That's actually the one thing bitwig really has going for it and I'm jealous. Not of anything else, just the PDC.

barryfell · Post by **barryfell** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 am

Good stuff.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:37 am

Is this the longest topic ever? 400 pages...

The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread