New Roland "DANCE" hardware- AIRA TR-8, TB-3, VT-3, SYSTEM-1

[ghettosynth]

Here's John Heckle playing just a 707 live with some records.



Here he is at the boiler room with just a rompler keyboard and a 707, so rompler+rompler. Taking advantage of "tap" programming and level controls. Keep in mind, this is all samples. You can do this with any sample based drum machine that has level controls, samples and "tap"-programming, but he likes that 707.



What do you think of these performances? Do you like them?

Do YOU like them?

You should know that I have no problem talking about these videos. But I asked first, surely you have an opinion? I don't know what kind of music that you do so I don't know how relevant this is to you. I get the sense that you're a keyboard "player", and not so much into EDM, please correct me if I'm wrong. This is really an EDM thing, so I'm not sure that we'd have much to say to each other but if I'm out of line here, and you are steeped in this culture, then since you've been here since 2001, I would think that you would have something to say about this.

[Kriminal]

You should know that I have no problem talking about these videos. But I asked first, surely you have an opinion? I don't know what kind of music that you do so I don't know how relevant this is to you. I get the sense that you're a keyboard "player", and not so much into EDM, please correct me if I'm wrong. This is really an EDM thing, so I'm not sure that we'd have much to say to each other but if I'm out of line here, and you are steeped in this culture, then since you've been here since 2001, I would think that you would have something to say about this.

i 'do' all sorts of synth based stuff (tho i can play guitar and pretty basic drums).....im into just about anything. Ive done a lot of acid techno kinda thing (think liberator dj's and related acts/labels) and lots of 'other' stuff too, including collabs with vocalists/guitarists/cellists etc etc. I wouldnt say its of a professional level (whatever that is) but i like it and i enjoy it. I've played live a few times since the early 80's.

I've also spent a lot of time dancing to stuff in the 80's/90's, mostly in warehouses and fields tho

[MFXxx]

Someone knock some heads together please =:•)

[ghettosynth]

You should know that I have no problem talking about these videos. But I asked first, surely you have an opinion? I don't know what kind of music that you do so I don't know how relevant this is to you. I get the sense that you're a keyboard "player", and not so much into EDM, please correct me if I'm wrong. This is really an EDM thing, so I'm not sure that we'd have much to say to each other but if I'm out of line here, and you are steeped in this culture, then since you've been here since 2001, I would think that you would have something to say about this.

i 'do' all sorts of synth based stuff (tho i can play guitar and pretty basic drums).....im into just about anything. Ive done a lot of acid techno kinda thing (think liberator dj's and related acts/labels) and lots of 'other' stuff too, including collabs with vocalists/guitarists/cellists etc etc. I wouldnt say its of a professional level (whatever that is) but i like it and i enjoy it. I've played live a few times since the early 80's.

I've also spent a lot of time dancing to stuff in the 80's/90's, mostly in warehouses and fields tho

Ok, so then I would think that you would have something to say about those videos and how they relate either to your own experiences playing out or what you experienced from others. Have you played live in an EDM setting, or by playing live do you mean in a more traditional setting?

[pdxindy]

Example of what is possible if you know how to use it...

You don't think that's possible with just live? Really? Do you think that's somehow elevated?

Of course it is. But it's better fun twisting knobs and using faders and not looking at the screen too much. And yes u could use a midi controller, but the problem with that is u'd need to map it, and there would still be screen looking to see which knob controlled what.

Look if you love Ableton so much ,go ahead and use it. The thing you can't seem to get in ur head is that different approaches suit different people. Seriously, I can't see why that is so hard for you to grasp.

Hey, anyone can use what equipment they want... Most of the content of that video is a Live set controlled by the APC40... which is a midi controller...

With the TR-8 through the 2/3rds or so he switches a few patterns and uses a fader to bring the kick in an out and adjusts a few levels a bit... towards the end he focuses more on the TR-8 and does the requisite repetition speed up, futzing with effects and playing around a bit with this and that. It is like a feature demo... I find the TR-8 part boring as it is the same tiny set of available sounds used in the same predictable ways with very little emotive variation. Hearing this I am more convinced that the excitement over this device will be fairly short lived.

The dynamic creativity possible with a device like this is tiny tiny tiny compared to a real drummer. What an electronic drum machine can have is a far wider sound palette and the ability to manipulate sounds in interesting ways. (what the TR-8 doesn't have)

I believe the deeper interest to 'return' to hardware is a desire to have more musicianship... there is an improvisational emotive power to people playing real instruments that electronic music is still trying to get to. I hear a lot of sentiments about getting away from the mouse and not looking at the screen. However, just because something is 'hardware' does not necessarily mean it offers something appreciably different.

I would say the TR-8 falls in that category. And it is trying to capitalize on the interest in hardware without really an understanding (IMO) of what people are looking for in a deeper sense.

There is a conflict between selling one of something to everyone and the art/craft of music. The more expressive you make something, the more skill is needed to use it. You can't get something for nothing.

The TR-8 is a mechanical boring and repetitive device with almost no variability in the sounds. 30 years ago that was something new and so had some interest. Today? Give me a real drummer anytime. Or at least give me something like the Elektron RYTM... which makes a credible effort to offer something expressive and nuanced...

[Kriminal]

Ok, so then I would think that you would have something to say about those videos and how they relate either to your own experiences playing out or what you experienced from others. Have you played live in an EDM setting, or by playing live do you mean in a more traditional setting?

i dont really know what EDM is...i know what it stands for, but i dont keep up with 'new' music much, so i couldnt tell you if Band A or Band B was EDM or not.

i watch gigs, with musicians, and play the same. Ive seen a few what i call tweaker acts, but it wasnt great. Some art wank going on on a screen while they tweak a big mixer or mouse around on a laptop....no matter how good the music is, its a poor performance in my book.

If you are going to a club to dance, thats diff...i have no interest in whats going on on stage, im there to drink and dance. You can play your 808/909 over the top of as many records as you like, im not watching, im dancing (tho not so much these days, the old legs cant take it )

[MFXxx]

... I find the TR-8 part boring as it is the same tiny set of available sounds used in the same predictable ways with very little emotive variation. Hearing this I am more convinced that the excitement over this device will be fairly short lived. ...

I think boring is probably only applicable for individuals who crave more than a straight forward, bang for your buck, drum machine with a few nicely thought out functions; effect per sound, per step.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on some samples into Maschine and see if anyone notices the audible difference but than that's my workflow of choice whereas the TR8 does not require a laptop/pc with software installed.

[ghettosynth]

Ok, so then I would think that you would have something to say about those videos and how they relate either to your own experiences playing out or what you experienced from others. Have you played live in an EDM setting, or by playing live do you mean in a more traditional setting?

i dont really know what EDM is...i know what it stands for, but i dont keep up with 'new' music much, so i couldnt tell you if Band A or Band B was EDM or not.

i watch gigs, with musicians, and play the same. Ive seen a few what i call tweaker acts, but it wasnt great. Some art wank going on on a screen while they tweak a big mixer or mouse around on a laptop....no matter how good the music is, its a poor performance in my book.

If you are going to a club to dance, thats diff...i have no interest in whats going on on stage, im there to drink and dance. You can play your 808/909 over the top of as many records as you like, im not watching, im dancing (tho not so much these days, the old legs cant take it )

Ok, so my perspective of your experience isn't far off the mark. You more entrenched in music, electronic or not, that is largely outside of EDM, and your EDM experience has largely been as a consumer in the sense that the D drove your expectations. I'm not using the word consumer in any pejorative sense here, I simply mean that you were a customer of dance music and your expectation is that you would be able to dance and you didn't care much how the music was presented as long as you could dance?

So it sounds like it's not unfair to say that your experience is largely external to the details of live dance music performance? When you say that you performed "acid", did you view that as "tweaking."

So, would label this as a "tweaker act."



As a musician, do you think that this is more, or less interesting than the 707 jam above?

I think that pxindy is getting at what's interesting here and I want to address his comments in detail, but I'm going to wait a while to do that.

FYI: I loathe the word tweaker as it has a completely different connotation within EDM culture, at least in the states.

[Kriminal]

Ive never played any acid live. I have played dance/synthy stuff live, but mostly its conventional band stuff. (You can dance to it, but i wouldnt call it dance)

I would be happy to play a full blown dance gig, but couldnt do it on my own. I certainly wouldnt want to be tweaking a desk. It would need to be hands on instruments. I dont really work well in a group tho....

[Kriminal]

FYI: I loathe the word tweaker as it has a completely different connotation within EDM culture, at least in the states.

i'll tell you exactly what i mean by that term: an act who does nothing on stage except move (or give the impresssion of moving) knobs here and there, like they are constantly trying to EQ a song. No triggering, no synths, just small finger movements and head nodding. Thats not a performance, thats a rip-off. I can stay at home and listen to the album, i came to see a perfomance!

i cant watch any vids today, i will try and make an effort tomorrow, but i cant promise anything, got a busy day.

[pdxindy]

... I find the TR-8 part boring as it is the same tiny set of available sounds used in the same predictable ways with very little emotive variation. Hearing this I am more convinced that the excitement over this device will be fairly short lived. ...

I think boring is probably only applicable for individuals who crave more than a straight forward, bang for your buck, drum machine with a few nicely thought out functions; effect per sound, per step.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on some samples into Maschine and see if anyone notices the audible difference but than that's my workflow of choice whereas the TR8 does not require a laptop/pc with software installed.

Heh... Nobody will notice the difference if you sample it... it is not like there are any filters or modulation which is hard to sample... other than pitch, which cannot be modulated since there are no envelopes or lfo's, the sounds are static.

Now here is a real drum machine...

[MFXxx]

... I find the TR-8 part boring as it is the same tiny set of available sounds used in the same predictable ways with very little emotive variation. Hearing this I am more convinced that the excitement over this device will be fairly short lived. ...

I think boring is probably only applicable for individuals who crave more than a straight forward, bang for your buck, drum machine with a few nicely thought out functions; effect per sound, per step.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on some samples into Maschine and see if anyone notices the audible difference but than that's my workflow of choice whereas the TR8 does not require a laptop/pc with software installed.

Heh... Nobody will notice the difference if you sample it... it is not like there are any filters or modulation which is hard to sample... other than pitch, which cannot be modulated since there are no envelopes or lfo's, the sounds are static.

Now here is a real drum machine...

LOL I agree and is possibly next on the list however. Currently sitting in front of the new Analog Keys struggling like hell to get my head around it, reading the pdf inbetween reading this post and watching the box...sigh...it's like learning nasa, but the new keybed certainly made Diva very very enjoyable...now bak to RTFM

...carry on...

[himalaya]

a real drum machine...

It is so difficult to understand for some here that there are people who want exactly the sounds the TR8 provides, in exactly the form factor (with the sliders and knobs) it provides.

The TR8 = just another option. Choose it, or don't choose it. Choose the instrument you can make music with. The push to discredit an instrument that makes some people happy is bizarre. If Roland made a gun, I'd understand it, but.....it....is...... a music instrument....

[ghettosynth]

a real drum machine...

It is so difficult to understand for some here that there are people who want exactly the sounds the TR8 provides, in exactly the form factor (with the sliders and knobs) it provides.

It's fallacy on your part to think that the idea is difficult to understand. Your idea is trivially simple and obvious. The discussion here is broader, and IMNSHO, more interesting. Our discussion does not imply that we don't understand your exceedingly simple idea. However, people here and elsewhere, question the reasoning behind wanting those sounds and that's also a perfectly valid form of conversation. If you just want a me too conversation with no dissent or disagreement, I'm quite sure that you can find something more accepting than this particular thread?

Would you like some suggestions?

So, indeed, choose it, or don't choose it, but this is a discussion forum, and we're having a discussion. In a thread announcing a new product, it is entirely fair to compare, contrast, and discuss how the instrument would, should, is, and shall be used in any musical context. It's perfectly valid to criticize the product as well as praise, ask who the manufacturer is targeting, ask why people would want to use that particular product, etc. Again, if you're not up to the conversation, perhaps something else would be more suitable for you?

That's what we're doing, it appears the only difficulty in understanding here rests with your inability to understand this, to me equally obvious, fact.

[ghettosynth]

moved to the next page.