One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[ThePresent]

Hmm, I somehow feel a bit proud to share this one line with you all, synth-mangling/loving OSC people. It's from a SoundOnSound interview, quoting the engineer that worked on DP's RandomAccessMemories.

"The synth and drum sounds on 'Doing' It Right', for example, were created using the modular synth, which also has the capability to store patterns. To mainly use this piece of gear was another very deliberate decision that they made. It's almost a lost art form to create sounds on an analogue synthesizer using LFOs and envelope filters and analogue delays and so on. "

Well, ehm... instead of analogue, think "virtual analogue...

[chilledpanda]

I would say it's the former not the later, what I would say that the last OSC (obxd) which had the new rule didn't encourage everyone to vote, so not had the desired effect, but there have been more abstains from the vote than any OSC I have seen, granted I've only been in 5 before obxd.

So they are forced to vote, but they don't. However they'd surely vote if not being forced to... ppl submittig tracks for OSC don't vote (or worse: don't even want to), yet outsiders are expected to do so. Yeah...that makes sense

IMO it's common sense and in the end a matter of respect: listen, comment and vote for the submitted tracks. Nobody's forcing you to participate, but if you do, you follow the rules. I don't see why some feel the need to "rebel" & "protest" and blow things out of proportions... I've been out of OSC for the past 2 months precisely because of all the negative vibe going on (and might continue to stay out until some folks come to their senses and stop arguing about everything).

Think you missed the point, you stated that the prize or dq's caused people to vote, I was simply stating an observation that the new rule it didn't make any difference when introduced, but agreed the prize one more likely does. Don't see where that would be classed as rebelling, protesting and blowing things out of proportions. At the end of the day nobody is really forced to vote at all if they don't want to, they just incur penalties from the rules and don't know where outsiders came into the frame of my comment?

I do agree it is about respect and common curtsey. I think that is what majority of osc do vote due to that and that is what is good about it.

Hope your not keeping out due to any of my comments, because that's never the intention of them, most of them are mean't to be constructive dialogue.

[idfpower]

Think you missed the point, you stated that the prize or dq's caused people to vote, I was simply stating an observation that the new rule it didn't make any difference when introduced, but agreed the prize one more likely does. Don't see where that would be classed as rebelling, protesting and blowing things out of proportions. At the end of the day nobody is really forced to vote at all if they don't want to, they just incur penalties from the rules and don't know where outsiders came into the frame of my comment?

So if the ppl are now required to vote but still don't do it, what is the reason? Except for some special circumstances (like being sick or misunderstanding the rules - but this one is not an excuse), it's either ppl don't care or don't want to vote. This whole argument started because some folks simply don't see why they should vote...

As for the "outsiders" part I was just summarising what has been thrown in as argument against mandatory voting

Hope your not keeping out due to any of my comments, because that's never the intention of them, most of them are mean't to be constructive dialogue.

Of course, my friend, don't worry It's just that I'm currently working on my own OSC type project, with the synths I pick & like to work with and using drum samples for extra fun Since I don't have the time to fully dedicate to OSC I'm taking a (short) break while things cool down around here

[chilledpanda]

Think you missed the point, you stated that the prize or dq's caused people to vote, I was simply stating an observation that the new rule it didn't make any difference when introduced, but agreed the prize one more likely does. Don't see where that would be classed as rebelling, protesting and blowing things out of proportions. At the end of the day nobody is really forced to vote at all if they don't want to, they just incur penalties from the rules and don't know where outsiders came into the frame of my comment?

So if the ppl are now required to vote but still don't do it, what is the reason? Except for some special circumstances (like being sick or misunderstanding the rules - but this one is not an excuse), it's either ppl don't care or don't want to vote. This whole argument started because some folks simply don't see why they should vote...

Agreed think people should be voting, never been against voting it's what makes it a comp., just the dq, imo won't make much difference apart from those who don't for been sick or misunderstanding, in the case of the sick it's unforeseeable and the misunderstanding affects new ppl, other than that, who knows never seen a lot of non voters, just the occasional few and the points kinda mute, so see how the rule works out.

As for the "outsiders" part I was just summarising what has been thrown in as argument against mandatory voting

Ah right no, agreed it will never work with just outsiders they have no vested interest, kudos to those who do without a submission, but they are rare.
It's the time needed to listen to all the songs that will put outsiders off.

Hope your not keeping out due to any of my comments, because that's never the intention of them, most of them are mean't to be constructive dialogue.

Of course, my friend, don't worry It's just that I'm currently working on my own OSC type project, with the synths I pick & like to work with and using drum samples for extra fun Since I don't have the time to fully dedicate to OSC I'm taking a (short) break while things cool down around here

Sounds good, looking forward to hearing it. Just structuring one of my old tracks, it's one of the things I lack at (tend to get carried away in the moment) as I don't have time for osc at the moment too

[abovethoughts]

Voicing a recommendation for a future OSC using ...

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/trans-c ... echnologie

[z.prime]

Voicing a recommendation for a future OSC using ...

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/trans-c ... echnologie

Ehh.. boo for synthedit.

[caonoize]

So if the ppl are now required to vote but still don't do it, what is the reason? Except for some special circumstances (like being sick or misunderstanding the rules - but this one is not an excuse), it's either ppl don't care or don't want to vote. This whole argument started because some folks simply don't see why they should vote...

Writing as someone who abstained during my contest (Osc 60), I think you're being a bit facile here. I made an honest effort, and I approached the task with hope, but after getting a third of the way through the entries I found it an exercise in abject dismay and endurance. I specifically wrote v'ger and begged off. I found a few good entries, but generally I ran into cases where there was a mildly interesting vamp, but it was never developed into anything. At worst the entry was downright simplistic and abrasive and failed to consider any matters of musicality whatsoever. Curiously, it fared well in the final tally.

There are people who will say this is a "synth competition" and try to redirect attention toward the technical, and to them I say that while bad production values might obscure a good song, the best production values won't rescue a poor one, and it seems only a few put in an honest effort at creating an engaging composition. This is fairly insulting when one has thought hard about matters of harmony, meter, and melody.

To the general audience: consider this; if you played a Wakeman Minimoog solo on a flute or a piano, you'd still have music. Would your piece tolerate such a shift? Does it stand on its own?

In requiring an original song, the rules in my view place musicianship/composership front and center. The synthesizer isn't just a Foley stage in a box. It is a tool for musical expression, and if a genuine effort isn't made there, all the effort elsewhere is just pretty gift wrapping on a dog turd, and a true waste of a life. How can I in all honesty engage with this? I can't help DQing anything that wouldn't pass the "piano test."

Requiring a vote is not the right thing to do as it can punish people for their taste as well.

[idfpower]

So what are you saying? That most tracks didn't deserve your vote, or something? "...an exercise in abject dismay and endurance..." - wow...just...wow.

[caonoize]

If the shoe fits...

[Marando]

If the shoe fits...

If the KVR OSC is nothing for you, than why bother in the first place? Just find yourself a competition where you feel more happy!

Bye bye now!

[caonoize]

But OSC is something to me: it is a showcase for music restricted to be performed on only one synthesizer with minimal post-production. However I refuse to accept that artistic integrity in the form of caring deeply about the song writing has no significant space. I have listened to a broad variety on music in my life from melodious to cacophonous. Hell! I grew up with punk for Pete sakes, it was the protest music of the time, but the thing is it was political and social complaint first and music a distant second. To score with both, you listened to guys like Frank Zappa.

Still, I think that music is an art, and I will not be so trivially dismissed, nor will I be silent when people treat composition so shabbily.

Look! I'm not claiming to be some latter day Mozart because I most certainly am not. I can see my work was severely flawed, and to me the biggest flaws aren't the production values which are frankly lousy. I'll agree with my critics on production values here, and I did on the soundcloud as well. Still the song is the foundation without which NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. If the song is lousy, one doesn't have a case. A four note ostinato with timbral shifts is not a song, it's a waste of not only my time but everyone else's as well.

What I'm saying is give the composition part some weight. Make a song you strongly feel worth the listener's time. Not everything will be wonderful. That's to be expected, but if you don't start with a musical idea, then what the Hell are you doing?

In summary: the music, the art matters, for without that, there is no reason whatsoever to approach an instrument.

[jasinski]

I hear where you are coming from Caonoize and recognize your position. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with some electronic music genres that are dance oriented that feature repetitive phrasing. You are welcome to not like them or disregard them as not worth your time. You can even call the people who are trying to make music in those genres foolish. I hope you can appreciate that that isn't the most effective approach to inviting others to entertain your ideas of musicality- which as I said I understand.

I like that you want to put song making first.
I say- do it! We need your voice in OSC. Show us why song writing matters and informs your position. Develop some cool themes. Over time I imagine you'll only get stronger and you will start to draw other people along with you.

It's obvious that you have some traditional music theory in your background. That's awesome. A lot of the participants don't have that. They may be a lot younger than you- like I said- they may be interested in genres you don't respect. I don't think it helps or changes anything when you invalidated their efforts that strive for a different musical goal. This contest is wonderful in that it inspires participants go grow- to learn- to try new things.

So I say- we need you! We need your knowledge. We'd love to hear what you have to say. Just do so in a way that YOU would like to hear if it were coming from others. Build up rather than tear down. Teach rather than criticize. It's way more fun and satisfying for everyone. Seriously!

[abovethoughts]

nvm

[idfpower]

If the shoe fits...

For the record, I too believe that songwriting should be the main focus and I generally don't give a damn about production...

But thing is...OTHERS DO. And since there's no requirement for specific criteria when voting, ppl can give their points to certain songs/artists for whatever reasons - and that's fine: some like to credit composition, others sound programming, or production. But all in all the songs that make it to top 5 usually have all of the above - they don't get the majority of votes for nothing.

Now I may not agree with the concept that nowadays the electronic musician should be equally skilled at song making & production - but many do so and will tax a song if it lacks in the production department, regardless of the composition skills. On the other hand electronic music is way more liberal approach than some other music genres when it comes to a song format: some may follow the classic theme/verse/bridge/chorus recipe, but it can get to formless tracks, live tweaking, improvs, etc. Since my main thing is playing rock I found that a bit difficult to grasp at first (especially since I "entered" into this world via dark ambient/industrial/noise acts - most of them sound(ed) totally alien from my beloved metal). So it may take a while to "stomach" it.

All that being said...


I find your message(s) downright insulting. There's a thin line between saying what you think without sugar coating it, and another to insult people's works just 'cause you think you or your music are superior to OSC entries. IMO the quality of entries is pretty high and going higher with each OSC edition. Yes, sometimes there may be some half-baked songs, but overall ppl really put an effort into it and the results speak for themselves.

OSC is about tightening the community, having a friendly competition and learning something in the process. Your messages do quite the opposite. If you intended to get ppl's attention, congratz, you've managed that. But if you think that attitude will earn you respect or generate interest for your music - or worse - intimidate anyone, you'd better rethink your approach.

Where I'm from we have a saying that goes something like this: "it's not the theory, but the practice that kills you". Which means (more or less) that you may be a great musician and a know-it-all when it comes to theory & songwriting, but your arrogance & lousy attitude ruin everything.

[Pulse Width Modulation]

One of the best parts of OSC is the variety of music genres! It makes for such an interesting and fun contest to listen to. Electronic music is too wide and colorful an art form to limit it to a few genres. When I'm judging tracks, I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of the entrant, and base my musical composition rating for that particular genre. What are they trying to attempt? and were they able to pull it off? That's what I want to rate. What I like about the new voting system is that we're not about all-out rankings anymore, where it can be tough to judge the music merit of a Berlin-school piece against a Trance piece, or jazz, or dubstep. Now, we can rate a track based on it's own merit. So, when looking at a track that goes to a specific genre, I'm looking at how successful are they at executing that composition. Unfortunately, there is a challenge, since we may not all be familiar with every genre enough to judge it. When I started doing OSC several years ago, I was pretty familiar with most EM, but due to some kind of brain-fart, I had totally missed out on the rise of dub-step, so when I started hearing it on OSC, it was all new. Luckily, even in this case, I could quickly get the idea of what the artist was going for. I think just the action of treating each track on its own merit is a huge step to fairness. Keep in mind too, that there may be many new voices in OSC that are trying to create their own original music. Having an open mind for this allows fairness for genres that we have no other examples of! It's also good to remember that not all artists may create things we personally find pleasing, but if they can express their ideas effectively, that's worth some points in my book! I'm not going to ignore or score someone down because I don't like the genre, but, if you want a 5, the music has to move me somehow, either emotionally, or make me want to move my body. So there's a personal preference, but only for my very top picks. For me, music composition is just part of the contest. Everyone does it differently, but I usually consider: Appropriate use of the synth and programming, musical composition, success for the genre (and/or originality), emotional response, and sound quality (that's a tie-breaker for top-tracks)