Is it worth reporting people who pirate software?

[robotmonkey]

Well, nobody likes snitches. What people like even less are snitches with self-conscious holier-than-thou attitude.

That said, it probably depends. For example if you would report your neighbors teenage son or someone you are collaborating it would be the ultimate in douchebagery. But if you would report a large studio making loads of money, maybe you could be in the right.

[hibidy]

I think that if you don't want someone to "snitch" then clean up your shit. Now, how is THAT for a holier than thou attitude?

But seriously, if someone is being a rude bastard or stealing, or beating someone up or dealing drugs they should be snitched on.

[robotmonkey]

Digital downloads KILLED the music industry along with apple. Why would the same people pay 500 bucks for a piece of software when it's free? Kids (and many adults) think you are STUPID to pay for this stuff. It's a cultural thing.

Digital downloads did not kill music industry. The only thing digital downloads have done is that the distribution of money has changed. Basically the money does not go to few at the top but is distributed among more people. Also music industry is doing quite well mainly due to increased live performances. Look it up.

Though I agree that the free downloading has had an effect but it is important to note that like with any new distribution technology music industry's first reaction was to try to prohibit this general technology (mp3). So they have no-one to blame except themselves that generations of people learned to use pirate sources for music downloads. There's no point to bitch about Apple as this was a very smart move by them. Apple used an opportunity that music industry in their stupidity completely neglected.

[hibidy]

Then why do I constantly hear musicians talking about how bad the music industry is?

I just watched the "30 seconds to mars" video about this shit. I don't these guys are blowing smoke, I think that there is a real problem in the industry. Not that that is the only source, but I don't have a long list of that in the memory banks.

Anyways, not saying you are wrong, but it's not what I've heard.

[hibidy]

And at apple, it's prolly true and I was blowing off steam. The industry COULD have done more instead of complaining about napster. I still hate apple though

[Nielzie]

May I take this in oppurtune moment to para phrase Dr. Crandall here: People that talk about not using warez are like people that talk about not using porn.

free porn ftw!

[murnau]

hi Nielzie. ..it's time to change your sig.

[V0RT3X]

I dont condone the use of pirated anything.. but someone said something about snitches and it reminded me of this episode.. lol

[hibidy]

Yeah, I'm not watching that

[Jace-BeOS]

Sometimes those 20 yo warezing kids grow up, make some money, and purchase every license they use. Thousands of dollars worth.

'Sometimes', how often do you think it happens on average that pirates rebuy everything they pirated ?

It's really about the character of the individual. If the person has a strong ethical sense, they'll straighten out. I did. When I started with pro software in 1998/99, I was just getting it from co-workers at an IT job. Audio stuff and graphics stuff. When I started making some songs with the audio apps, I realized "this isn't right; I wouldn't want my music stolen". When I got a better job, I started buying all the software I had liked that was previously warez. Then I went nuts buying a ton of stuff a few years later (which wasn't healthy, but was based still in the ethic of rewarding developers of great tools; we'll ignore the questionable ethics of credit abuse since I was made crazy at the time).

I'm glad I had access to the tools, at first for free, because I explored. I'm also glad I was allowed to make my own decisions on the ethics, rather than someone doing it for me (or causing me trouble with software police). Ever since then, I've been a loyal supporter of the developers of tools I use, including a few that ultimately didn't deserve loyalty (but I still credit them with getting me started, even after moving on from them; thanks Cakewalk for being affordable/accessible back in the day). Now I'm the kind of person that chides my friends for not buying licenses to the software they're using, especially the stuff they use frequently. If it's inexpensive, it's even more stupid to not pay the developer.

Sadly, I suspect that for every me, there are five arrogant opportunists slipping into being "producers" from having been "DJs", where their ethic is "if I can copy it, it's fair game, and entire genres are about sampling and stealing, so YO!" Also sadly, these guys are likely to be more aggressive and therefore find some way to make money on their "productions"... probably not spending any of that money on getting legit with their software. These are the guys we see in the magazines with cracking groups' names in the title bars of their software... Points to the arrogance of the cracking groups for slapping their monikers out in the open

It's funny how hard it is for people to sense the ethical issues with software. The abusive attitude of the industry only makes the cognitive disconnect far worse (I'm looking at you, EULAs!!!!). I don't agree with calling software piracy theft, even with the thinking that got me to change my earlier immature ways. Physical objects are possessions we can intuit, software is nothing like that. You can't deprive a developer of their property by copying it, and if you weren't going to pay for it, you're not depriving them of income. But it gets blurry when the idea of productivity with the tool comes into the discussion. The idea that you're getting free productivity from a tool that is meant to be licensed to you is where the idea of ethics are clear to me: pay the hell up or don't use it! But even THAT is hard for people to get, because, again, it's immaterial. Some of my friends using shareware beyond trial periods, or sharing one license among them for small tools, are actually involved in ethics movements themselves, yet they can't grasp the full extent of the software licensing ethic.

I suggest that the licensing model is just basically broken, but nothing has come to replace it that is better (because free software only gets us so far before we need support, better quality, or the product vanishes, and it has zero incentive for the developer). Capitalism with intellectual goods isn't remotely intuitive. It's similar to exchange of goods and trade for services, but it's way too abstract for most people.

WTL/DR:

I vote: "Don't report individuals, even if they're making money; talk to them and give them a chance to do right on their own and then walk away. They're not wrecking society or hurting anyone."

And: "Do report BIG business studios, since their BUSINESS is money using these tools. Work for hire with the tools should require the tools being legit or they're hypocrites for wanting you to pay them for studio time"... though beware retaliation!

[Jace-BeOS]

Nothing can ever be overpriced. Free market forces will dictate this.

That's an absolute myth these days. There is no such thing as the free market when markets are dominated by only a handful of companies. There are so many examples of this it's not worth citing examples. I'll admit that things aren't nearly as bad in the MUSIC software market yet, but I had to step in and reject the "free market" myth being thrown around here. Companies that enjoy abusing consumers LOVE that meme/myth and they LOVE seeing (and they benefit from) consumers mimicking it and forwarding it along to to other consumers. The dominant company DEFINES the market and their marketing shapes perception of value.

[Jace-BeOS]

However, while you may not agree with certain laws, generally speaking, banks and governments don't 'steal' your money. They get your money using laws that are on the books. Usually. Not to say that it DOESN'T happen, but when your money is taken by them illegally, you can, and should, report them as well.

I'm sure that there is stealing that is lawful or just some things are really hard to enforce due to the blurring of individual and corporation. I don't think 'law' and 'ethics' are synonyms, so I think 'lawful' cannot through itself vacate 'theft' as you are seeking here.

This was a fantastic and important distinction to make, by the way. Cheers!

[Jace-BeOS]

Although you personally don't see the value in a $800 t-shirt, many do.

Of course it's priced normally. That's the target market.
People who spend this much on clothing wouldn't be seen dead in a $20 shirt.
Good luck to them I say. Wish I could do this.

Wow. You seriously wish you could spend $800 on a shirt?? I wish I had lots of money, but there's no way in hell I would WASTE it on obscenities like overpriced merchandise, and I wouldn't spend it on image.

That kind of spending isn't "normal" in any scope of the meaning of the word.

[chk071]

Nothing can ever be overpriced. Free market forces will dictate this.

That's an absolute myth these days. There is no such thing as the free market when markets are dominated by only a handful of companies.

So everyone is forced to buy overpriced stuff? I would say that is pretty much a myth too.

[Jace-BeOS]

Wow... Bowing out now. Late to the thread and finding it going everywhere it was destined to go with a mixed group of people who have very different STRONG opinions

Last comment: chk071: "everyone is forced to buy overpriced stuff"?

YES. Read up on the US healthcare costs vs almost everywhere else.

Done. Finished. Goodbye!