One-Synth-Challenge 63: VOPM (Ended)

[photonic]

Am I being stupid - I can't get VOPM to respond to the sustain pedal that all my other VST respond to? I play most of my stuff live into Reaper then edit it so this is going to be a bit annoying.....

Same here!
And I cannot use the mod-wheel too. No sound of the existing presets is using it.

[artao]

Okay, so I got the CC controller installed and running via ReaJS in VSTHost ... but I can't seem to figure out how to use it to control the "hidden" CC parameters. I was able to control volume and a couple other standard controls tho. I'm quite new at using tools such as this, so help would be appreciated here.
Thanks! =D

Also, I'm a little confused as to what is and is not allowed to be done to the sounds coming out of the synth.
For instance, per the rules, we can't use a pitch-shifter. However, I assume this doesn't mean we can't automate the pitch knob for the instrument, correct (i.e.-we CAN do this) ...
Or how about something like a Leslie effect?
In other words, what exactly constitutes "altering" the sound? .. no distortion, flange, phase, wah, chorus, bitcrush, ring mod .. ... but what about "fatteners", reverb, echo, delay ... again, I'm new to this sort of music making .. only really used ReBirth, Reason, and Acid in the past ... now using LMMS (primarily for now) and Reaper demo (barely so far). My first full-fledged DAWs

Also using VSTHost to mess with instruments and audition and make pre-sets. So if I understand right, I COULD record out of VSTHost and mix in a full DAW, correct?

Thanks for helping out a newb =D

[ThePresent]

Maybe the easiest way to find out what is allowed is to click on the link in V'ger's signature, about recommended plugins. In general, modulation and pitchshifting is not allowed unless it is inside the synth itself, so yes you can use the pitchbend, detune and coarse tuning on the synth.

[z.prime]

Okay, so I got the CC controller installed and running via ReaJS in VSTHost ... but I can't seem to figure out how to use it to control the "hidden" CC parameters. I was able to control volume and a couple other standard controls tho

For the CC tool I wrote, you need to route the output MIDI (including CC messages, obviously) from the CC tool to VOPM plugin. I'm not sure entirely how you do that in VSTHost. In REAPER, you just add the effect on the same track as VOPM, and drag it above VOPM in the signal chain. Also, I just added all the CC #s and names that were on the VOPM skin. Many of them don't really seem to do anything... The mono & pitch ones do, though, and are necessary to change those settings.

I'm a little confused as to what is and is not allowed to be done to the sounds coming out of the synth. For instance, per the rules, we can't use a pitch-shifter. However, I assume this doesn't mean we can't automate the pitch knob for the instrument, correct (i.e.-we CAN do this) ... Or how about something like a Leslie effect? In other words, what exactly constitutes "altering" the sound? .. no distortion, flange, phase, wah, chorus, bitcrush, ring mod .. ... but what about "fatteners", reverb, echo, delay ...

Distortion is allowed, as long as it's not too extreme. There is, and has always been, a gray area between a plugin altering the sound "beyond recognition" and one that is acceptable. Reverb is allowed as I'd explain it, for example, as you could literally bring an amp to a stadium and record it, though it is impractical to do so... or you could stack 100 instances and get a pretty good approximation, but that would be a pain in the $%#. Delay is similar: you could easily achieve it with multiple instances or sometimes just repeating the notes, but that would be a pain in the butt to program, too when there's really no need. Modulation effects like chorus, phaser, etc., might be difficult to achieve with just the synth, I guess? I'd assume a Leslie effect would be okay, particularly if you could achieve the same results through EQ, panning, and volume changes the minor pitch variations might disqualify it, though. Generally, it boils down to more-or-less letting the sound of the synth out. List out the effects and ask specifically if you have any questions.

Also using VSTHost to mess with instruments and audition and make pre-sets. So if I understand right, I COULD record out of VSTHost and mix in a full DAW, correct?

Right, you could record to .wav out of VSTHost, if you wanted. (Though, I would strongly encourage using REAPER or another DAW).

[artao]

Maybe the easiest way to find out what is allowed is to click on the link in V'ger's signature, about recommended plugins. In general, modulation and pitchshifting is not allowed unless it is inside the synth itself, so yes you can use the pitchbend, detune and coarse tuning on the synth.

Thanks ... yeah, I've been thru those .. but then got into browsing all the plugins available thru the variously listed site LOL

@z.prime ... thanks for the tips and info ... so I'll DL your new version here. ..

Working this way (DAW with VSTs) certainly is more confusing than working with something as simple as ReBirth or Reason ... but OH!! so much more flexible!!!

[pmj_rit]

Ah. Sonar does not save the state of this.

Does this mean I have have to save each instance as a patch, make notes on which patch should be loaded into each instance, then reload them all at the start of the next session?

If you can use it, the ReaJS script I just mentioned works to restore the state as you'd expect (just need to be able to put it before your VOPM instance in the MIDI signal chain).

Thank you Z.Prime.

So this is a script that Reaper understands?

Sonar does have CAL but I would have have to translate it, which at the moment seems tough since I have never scripted for Reaper. Also I've only done very basic things with cal because the syntax is so weird.

Yes, it's for reaper but you can get the reaplugs bundle and load it in to any host with the reajs plugin.

Thank you again. I'll see if I can get it to work.

I will need to get Sonar / ReaJS to put scroll bars in the window. Not all the controls are accessible at the moment.

These are missing:

slider22:-1<-1,127,1>TL3 Volume (lo)
slider23:-1<-1,1,1>Portamento on/off
slider24:-1<-1,127,1>LFO Delay
slider25:-1<-1,127,1>Portamento Control
slider26:-1<-1,127,1>NRPN Data (lo)
slider27:-1<-1,127,1>NRPN Data (hi)
slider28:-1<-1,127,1>RPN Data (lo)
slider29:-1<-1,127,1>RPN Data (hi)
slider30:-1<-1,1,1>Force all off
slider31:-1<-1,1,1>Monophonic mode
slider32:-1<-1,1,1>Polyphonic mode

Maybe I'll use Cntrlr? Or just edit midi. Or not.

Then again my life just got way, way too complicated so I'm out for a while.

[artao]

I will need to get Sonar / ReaJS to put scroll bars in the window. Not all the controls are accessible at the moment.

These are missing:

slider22:-1<-1,127,1>TL3 Volume (lo)
slider23:-1<-1,1,1>Portamento on/off
slider24:-1<-1,127,1>LFO Delay
slider25:-1<-1,127,1>Portamento Control
slider26:-1<-1,127,1>NRPN Data (lo)
slider27:-1<-1,127,1>NRPN Data (hi)
slider28:-1<-1,127,1>RPN Data (lo)
slider29:-1<-1,127,1>RPN Data (hi)
slider30:-1<-1,1,1>Force all off
slider31:-1<-1,1,1>Monophonic mode
slider32:-1<-1,1,1>Polyphonic mode

Yeah ... I seem to be missing those as well .. and I guess I didn't even realize that
Everything shows up in Reaper, but not via VSTHost or LMMS

[H-man]

For what it's worth, I found this little VST to send MIDI messages to the plugin:

CC Rider

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26701

Podium does not route MIDI to other plugins/tracks natively so I use this with something like Studio Units or MiniHost Modular.

In the MiniHost Modular route MIDI from the host to VOPM as well as from the host to CCrider to VOPM.

Maybe not the best way but it seems to do what I need it to.

[cytoSonic]

Am I being stupid - I can't get VOPM to respond to the sustain pedal that all my other VST respond to? I play most of my stuff live into Reaper then edit it so this is going to be a bit annoying.....

Same here!
And I cannot use the mod-wheel too. No sound of the existing presets is using it.

I, too, am a sustain-pedal addict

If you're interested, I threw together this quick little utility...
https://app.box.com/s/f9wpnugmm7ikti8cd16p

Basically, it's just a VST Midi buffer that blocks and "collects" all of the note-off data while the sustain pedal is depressed (CC#64 > 64). When the Pedal is released, it flushes the buffer, sending all the note-off messages in one go.

The file size is large (>1MB), because I slapped it together in Synthmaker. If anyone decides to use this and has a problem with that, I can write and compile a "proper" VST, though this really should work perfectly fine (even bridged).

To use, just put the .dll in your VST folder. Load it before VOPM in your plugin chain. I tested it in Reaper and it works like a charm.

-Brad

EDIT: also, I should mention that if there is a particular note being sustained and you repeat it, this will NOT retrigger the envelopes. Just so you know. I didn't really want to make this too complex.

EDIT #2: I just made a new version that will re-trigger the repeated notes. If anyone wants it, say so and I'll upload it (or you can PM me). If not, I won't bother.

[Yudaidhun]

For your curiosity, there is VOPMex which support Mac and 64bit.
http://picopicose.com/software.html

[flipm1967]

@cytoSonic; Thanks for the sustain vst!!! I'll give it a go. Might try and write the same in JS for reaper - no idea if its possible.

VOPM still driving me nuts - I seem to be getting some digital distortion on even one instance - even when notes are played quietly there is some crackling in the background - which strangely tracks the volume of the note being played. I haven't tried the MIDI CC 98/99 thing mentioned in the manual yet. It sounds like when the buffer size is too small for the soundcard but im on an i7 64 bit here which works fine with reaper 64 on ALL other VST. Maybe its a 32/64 bit issue

[doctorbob]

Glad everyone is being driven nuts! Well, you know what I mean. Tricky one to get just the right sounds. I set myself (and daughter) the task of doing a classical like piece - even before VOPM was announced. So, true to my word, we are getting on with it. This one will have flute, oboe, clarinet, horn 1, horn 2, horn 3, horn 4, violin 1, violin 2, viola and contrabass. All the parts will be fully scored in a notation package first, midi exported into REAPER and VOPM programmed to work with the tracks.

So far, we are doing OK. Final piece will be quite long (maybe 7 mins!) - and will be in sections of course. The theme is the Greek Gods - I will put a quick comment on the timeline to say which section belongs to which God!

Finding it difficult to get rich orchestral sounds from VOPM - and then to fill the mix. But, am getting there - just using the sounds from the synth, EQ for each track, one reverb buss (Bootsy), then master eq, comp and limit.

Here's a short section for you to hear how it's going - if this is allowed? if not, I'm sure someone will chime in and I'll remove the excerpt.

https://soundcloud.com/doctorbob/excerpt-for-osc-63

Cheers,

Doctor Bob and daughter!

[bjporter]

For your curiosity, there is VOPMex which support Mac and 64bit.
http://picopicose.com/software.html

Thanks a lot

I will update the download section and hopefully we'll have reskinned versions too.

[z.prime]

For your curiosity, there is VOPMex which support Mac and 64bit.
http://picopicose.com/software.html

Thanks a lot

I will update the download section and hopefully we'll have reskinned versions too.

What's the difference between VOPM and this one?

[bjporter]

For your curiosity, there is VOPMex which support Mac and 64bit.
http://picopicose.com/software.html

Thanks a lot

I will update the download section and hopefully we'll have reskinned versions too.

What's the difference between VOPM and this one?

Better volume.
Smoother controls.
Maybe some Midi fixes?

Let me know if you find any differences.