how to make FM triangle wave from sines ?

[BOB "T"]

Gecko Yamori Hey wait a minute you're the genius music maker of SOR-Remake! My honor to know you & talk to you! Please let's keep in touch I'm pleased to know you

Gecko maybe the genius of SOR but your the genius of FM ! i'll try that pulse thing tonight with my SY-77.

[BOB "T"]

There's no direct phase feature in FM8. Can it be achieved via the offset somehow?

Hmmm, I'm not quite sure as I don't have FM8, But offsetting works different than phase shifting... I'll try doing another method without applying phasing & will let you know, although I doubt it
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Update:

Solved, here's the concept:
In order to obtain a basic Pulse Waveform, we have to mix 1 sawtooth with an inverted sawtooth, as shown here:



To achieve this:
Op2 modulates Op1, both at same frequency, the Op2 must be phase shifted (inverted), trying to get a simple (Saw-Square) combination, then by shaping the waveform using the feedback loops for both Op1 & Op2 you get the required shape.


I have FM7 which can't simulate such thing as it doesn't have phase inversion. What about FM8?

Can't be a Saw + inverted Saw with only 2 operators ? because to do a saw you need 2 operator so 4 total ?

[phreaque]

[quote="BOB "T""]

Gecko Yamori Hey wait a minute you're the genius music maker of SOR-Remake! My honor to know you & talk to you! Please let's keep in touch I'm pleased to know you

Gecko maybe the genius of SOR but your the genius of FM ! i'll try that pulse thing tonight with my SY-77.[/quote]
Oh! Thanks a lot mate nice to hear that...
Actually we were discussing FM synthesis on software tools, for the REAL synths like the God SY77/SY99 You have to make another approach. You can simply achieve the basic famous pulse on Your SY77 by modulating 1 sinewave to another one (both same coarse or octave), but to make the trick You have to adjust the feedback of modulator to some level. You can do that. I used the FM7 as it simulates the DX/SY series accurately. Take a look

[MadBrain]

OPL3 has the square wave. If you modulate a square wave with a square wave, you get Roland Juno style PWM. In fact, it's a bit too fat for C64 style even. Unfortunately this works much less well on synths that have bandlimited or interpolated square waves (FM7 for instance).

[Chris-S]

Hi,
from the NI FM8 forum:

PWM

The simplest way to get a pulse wave mod is to modulate a square wave by a ramp:




(The FM8 waveforms are smoothed as you see, to avoid aliasing I guess.)

[nr1killabee]

Hello KVR´s,

I would like to built a saw from scratch/from sines.
Not for using it, but for better understanding how those waveforms are built up.
Can you guys help me out how to do it in one softsynth like for example FM8 or 7 ?

For now I just took a softsynth and loaded a sine on for example A0, next on A1 and so on. But in this way I have not enough partials to end up with...

I am a noob with this, so sorry if I wrote something stupid
I have some subtractive knowledge but I am new to additive synthesis.

Thanx in advance

[Chris-S]

Hi,
you can put all 6 operators in parallel to simulate an additive synth with 6 harmonics.



Or you use FM stacks. In this case all operators are set to same frequency ratio.
Don't forget to key-sync the operators to put them to same phase.



Now comes the trick with feedback. You can save a lot of operators when you use feedback.

Two operators:



And you can even generate a saw with only one sin operator:



For sweeps you can not use the one operator algorithm, because the feedback is fixed (can not be changed by an envelope).

Another story is that you have not only sinus but 32 waveforms for each operator.

Chris

[phreaque]

Fourier series summation to achieve complex waveform is good for additive synthesis.
For FM/PM Synthesis the things are much way different. Not easy of course. But instead of putting partials you may alter 2 operators to get really compels waveforms
On this case (simulating sawtooth) is even easier. Only 1 sinewave operate. Set self feedback way up till you get the buzzing saw wave.

[rtkeeling]

Hadn't seen this thread before. But, since it's bubbled up--Yay Sytrus!

Roy

[phreaque]

Hi,
from the NI FM8 forum:

PWM

The simplest way to get a pulse wave mod is to modulate a square wave by a ramp:




(The FM8 waveforms are smoothed as you see, to avoid aliasing I guess.)

Hello Chris
It's really wonderful to see people of FM8 forum here. Thank you..
We were actually trying to simulate variety of complex waveform on typical FM/PM synthesis which deals only with sine waveform.
There are somehow differences in the synths, but it is really powerful to know the similarities & basics of FM/PM synthesis.
I'm managing for next week to post another stuff about making patches on FM7/FM8/Sytrus. Hope you all guys to share the ideas too.

[nr1killabee]

It worked and after all, it was very easy to accomplish.
Thank you for your help.
But I copied the amplitudes from your picture, I should try it again
and find the amplitudes myself.



Edit: After playing with the amplitudes in the spectrum view, I can see now how important that they are for shaping the waveform.

Edit2: Someone just told me that there is a formula for the amplitudes. I can't translate it in english but from F to A it shall be:
1-1/2-1/3-1/4-1/5-1/6 so if F is 80 it will look like this:



But soundwise, your saw sounds better/has more body in the sound.