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zurg · Post by **zurg** » Mon May 12, 2014 2:54 am

Hey guys new here.. made the switch from gearslutz as i see no music theory forum

I know a good amount of theory, i have been studying this beloved subject on my own through the netz for the past 3 years..

'tis my favorite thing to do also love that you never stop learning

so i just heard a song in F Major and i sounded out the lead melody on my own with my midi keyboard and the lead consists of F, G#, D#, and C. Is this a fairly odd thing to do? I know about lowering sixths but I never even thought about raising it as a possibility, at least not in the major scale.. the melody also uses the regular sixth later on the song! What sort of 'effect' does this have on Major scales?

hoping for an array of info that i have yet to learn

memyselfandus · Post by **memyselfandus** » Mon May 12, 2014 3:02 am

Mixolydian perhaps

zurg · Post by **zurg** » Mon May 12, 2014 3:09 am

The song is keeping F as the root!

terriandralph · Post by **terriandralph** » Mon May 12, 2014 3:59 am

Just a guess, but it could be that the G# could be construed as a blue note for the third(Ab) and the D# as a blue note for the seventh (Eb)

DocAtlas · Post by **DocAtlas** » Mon May 12, 2014 4:03 am

zurg wrote:Hey guys new here.. made the switch from gearslutz as i see no music theory forum

I know a good amount of theory, i have been studying this beloved subject on my own through the netz for the past 3 years.. 'tis my favorite thing to do also love that you never stop learning

so i just heard a song in F Major and i sounded out the lead melody on my own with my midi keyboard and the lead consists of F, G#, D#, and C. Is this a fairly odd thing to do? I know about lowering sixths but I never even thought about raising it as a possibility, at least not in the major scale.. the melody also uses the regular sixth later on the song! What sort of 'effect' does this have on Major scales?

hoping for an array of info that i have yet to learn

If you call the G# Ab, and the D# Eb, you've got the notes of an F minor 7th chord. Are these the only notes in the melody? It might help if you posted a link to the song, so we could hear it for ourselves. Context means a lot when analyzing songs.

c_bomb · Post by **c_bomb** » Mon May 12, 2014 4:04 am

That's an F minor chord.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Mon May 12, 2014 5:02 am

That is the notes of Fm7 as others have said. Shifting between the major and minor chords on the same root is a pretty common chord change in tunes.

zurg · Post by **zurg** » Mon May 12, 2014 6:46 am

DocAtlas wrote:
zurg wrote:Hey guys new here.. made the switch from gearslutz as i see no music theory forum

I know a good amount of theory, i have been studying this beloved subject on my own through the netz for the past 3 years.. 'tis my favorite thing to do also love that you never stop learning

so i just heard a song in F Major and i sounded out the lead melody on my own with my midi keyboard and the lead consists of F, G#, D#, and C. Is this a fairly odd thing to do? I know about lowering sixths but I never even thought about raising it as a possibility, at least not in the major scale.. the melody also uses the regular sixth later on the song! What sort of 'effect' does this have on Major scales?

hoping for an array of info that i have yet to learn
If you call the G# Ab, and the D# Eb, you've got the notes of an F minor 7th chord. Are these the only notes in the melody? It might help if you posted a link to the song, so we could hear it for ourselves. Context means a lot when analyzing songs.

3:40 is where i'm referring to, thanks so much for the insight!

zurg · Post by **zurg** » Mon May 12, 2014 6:50 am

terriandralph wrote:Just a guess, but it could be that the G# could be construed as a blue note for the third(Ab) and the D# as a blue note for the seventh (Eb)

i just learned something new.. many thanks. blue note huh!

DocAtlas · Post by **DocAtlas** » Mon May 12, 2014 7:10 am

zurg wrote:
DocAtlas wrote:
zurg wrote:Hey guys new here.. made the switch from gearslutz as i see no music theory forum

I know a good amount of theory, i have been studying this beloved subject on my own through the netz for the past 3 years.. 'tis my favorite thing to do also love that you never stop learning

so i just heard a song in F Major and i sounded out the lead melody on my own with my midi keyboard and the lead consists of F, G#, D#, and C. Is this a fairly odd thing to do? I know about lowering sixths but I never even thought about raising it as a possibility, at least not in the major scale.. the melody also uses the regular sixth later on the song! What sort of 'effect' does this have on Major scales?

hoping for an array of info that i have yet to learn
If you call the G# Ab, and the D# Eb, you've got the notes of an F minor 7th chord. Are these the only notes in the melody? It might help if you posted a link to the song, so we could hear it for ourselves. Context means a lot when analyzing songs.

3:40 is where i'm referring to, thanks so much for the insight!

Actually, in that section the song sounds like it's in C minor,the chords there are C-, Eb, Bb, and F; the melody notes there aren't unusual for the chords they're being played over. In the other parts of the song it sounds like it's just going from F to Eb.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon May 12, 2014 5:25 pm

Songs do not have to be fixed to diatonic structures (the major scale)
Chord progressions do not need to be fixed to diatonic scales.

During the british invasion Clapton would write songs using chord progressions based on the minor pentatonic scale. Such as ... Sunshine of your love by EC
Other musicians of that era were quick to adapt to the new approach to chords progressions build from the minor pentatonic scale including the Beatles (Back in the USSR) Rick Derringer Rock and roll hoochie Koo and several others.

The blues scale is a variant of the minor pentatonic scale that is often superimposed over major chords to create a sense of tension. While the minor pentatonic is spelled 1-b3-4-5-b7 the blues scale adds a flattened 5th 1-b3-4-b5-5-7. The major pentatonic is spelled - 1-2-3-5-6 it is the relative major to the pentatonic minor. The country blues scale includes a b3 eg 1-2-b3-3-5-6 these additional tones are often treated as neighboring or passing tones as a given melody rarely will stop on the note

There are several ways to define a non-chord tone based on it's usage in classical treatment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonchord_tone

As well contemporary music that stems from popular music has it's own definitions.

Regardless of the descriptor's intended to bring understanding often times musical ideas are formulated on the simple premise of "Sounded good, let's keep it in" Theory at it's best is a guide and at it's worst is a hard taskmaster which can limit one's potential. Many a profound and prolific songwriter is able to achieve their goals by ignorance and desire.

MadBrain · Post by **MadBrain** » Mon May 12, 2014 6:58 pm

Playing a minor blues scale (F Ab Bb B C Eb) over a major dominant chord (F7) is a relatively common thing in blues-y songs. The major blues scale (F G Ab A C D) is also very common (and Eb is often added as a bridge note between D and F).

Note that this doesn't work if your major chord is Fmaj7 due to the clash between Eb and E (and also the clash of Ab versus A and E).

zurg · Post by **zurg** » Tue May 13, 2014 8:10 am

MadBrain wrote:Playing a minor blues scale (F Ab Bb B C Eb) over a major dominant chord (F7) is a relatively common thing in blues-y songs. The major blues scale (F G Ab A C D) is also very common (and Eb is often added as a bridge note between D and F).

Note that this doesn't work if your major chord is Fmaj7 due to the clash between Eb and E (and also the clash of Ab versus A and E).

wonderful.. thanks so much

major scale raised sixth?