I've been checking some MIDI today and discovered unusual note set:
D F G A A# C D
The unusual thing is a gap of 3 semitones over the root.
What is the name of this scale? Is there such?
Which scale has these notes?
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- KVRAF
- 4589 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw
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Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Why is naming it important? So it isn't seven notes as given here, it left out a 'second degree'. BTW that A# is a Bb, if you forced it to be a seven note thing it's going to correspond with 'natural minor', or 'aeolian' putting an E natural in it, or phrygian with an Eb.
As a rule of thumb, unless you're dealing in eight or more in the scale, two consecutive letter names is a misspelling. The A# is typical of people that have only experience with a piano roll which only gives sharps. If you have A A# B in a row, that is meaningful spelling.
For say, Indian music, a six-note thing is not actually unusual.
As a rule of thumb, unless you're dealing in eight or more in the scale, two consecutive letter names is a misspelling. The A# is typical of people that have only experience with a piano roll which only gives sharps. If you have A A# B in a row, that is meaningful spelling.
For say, Indian music, a six-note thing is not actually unusual.
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- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
it's the Gm11 chord: G A#/Bb D F A C but scale there isn't.DJ Warmonger wrote:I've been checking some MIDI today and discovered unusual note set:
D F G A A# C D
The unusual thing is a gap of 3 semitones over the root.
What is the name of this scale? Is there such?
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
How is there no scale? How is it a chord per se? It's stated in a row. Do you just believe there must be seven for this thing to fit a definition of scale? Your definition will be deficient. If you disagree, google 'hexatonic scale' and watch what happens. It isn't a chord until they are all sounding together.
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- KVRist
- 401 posts since 4 May, 2004
If you found it in a slightly ethnic sounding MIDI it could likely be some sort of turkish/arabian maqam or indian raga being "snaapped" into our western chromatic space (not unusual in ethnic electronica). These tend to have those three-semitone gaps and typically have no chords or harmony in western sense in songs (tho you can add always pretend it's just another mode and try some chords over pretty much anything you've snapped to chromatics, but it will not always work the way it does with major/minor).
These modes tend to work best for melodic composition that you try to harmonize later (if you really must). Doing stuff like omitting 5ths and/or 3rds from chords will "santize" them from diatonic associations (that both musicians and general music tend to perceive). I agree with jancivil that you shouldn't really bother yourself with naming it. General rule of thumb is -- if it sounds good, it's good, and sometimes rules are way to complex to be of any practical use.
These modes tend to work best for melodic composition that you try to harmonize later (if you really must). Doing stuff like omitting 5ths and/or 3rds from chords will "santize" them from diatonic associations (that both musicians and general music tend to perceive). I agree with jancivil that you shouldn't really bother yourself with naming it. General rule of thumb is -- if it sounds good, it's good, and sometimes rules are way to complex to be of any practical use.
Obviously a computer still can’t throw a television out of a hotel window or get drunk and be sick on the carpet, so there is little danger of them replacing drummers for some while yet. -- Nick Mason
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4589 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw
Because I like to know things and name them properlyWhy is naming it important
Thanks for answers.
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
You're onto something but you move slightly away from it with 'just another mode and try some chords'. Modes will not work with chords 'the way it does with major/minor' through being themselves. Even Aeolian which more or less behaves like natural minor, the ii chord off of it is not helping the mode and can ruin it making you believe III is I through the typical tension/resolve of major. This is the main thing to avoid if you want the mood of the mode intact.peejunk wrote:If you found it in a slightly ethnic sounding MIDI it could likely be some sort of turkish/arabian maqam or indian raga being "snaapped" into our western chromatic space (not unusual in ethnic electronica). These tend to have those three-semitone gaps and typically have no chords or harmony in western sense in songs (tho you can add always pretend it's just another mode and try some chords over pretty much anything you've snapped to chromatics, but it will not always work the way it does with major/minor).
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- KVRist
- 245 posts since 11 May, 2014
Phrygian Hexatonic in the Key of D.DJ Warmonger wrote: D F G A A# C D
The unusual thing is a gap of 3 semitones over the root.
What is the name of this scale? Is there such?
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- KVRist
- 401 posts since 4 May, 2004
Perhaps I didn't express myself properly but that's more/less what I meant. And by chords I don't just mean "whack triads two scale tones apart all night long". If you want to keep the idiom of the mode you'll need to either have info by someone who did their research into idiomatic harmony over that mode and style, or play with various combinations of on-scale tones (sometimes even off-scale tones e.g. for ethnic modes that act like melodic minor) until you're onto something.jancivil wrote:You're onto something but you move slightly away from it with 'just another mode and try some chords'. Modes will not work with chords 'the way it does with major/minor' through being themselves. Even Aeolian which more or less behaves like natural minor, the ii chord off of it is not helping the mode and can ruin it making you believe III is I through the typical tension/resolve of major. This is the main thing to avoid if you want the mood of the mode intact.peejunk wrote:If you found it in a slightly ethnic sounding MIDI it could likely be some sort of turkish/arabian maqam or indian raga being "snaapped" into our western chromatic space (not unusual in ethnic electronica). These tend to have those three-semitone gaps and typically have no chords or harmony in western sense in songs (tho you can add always pretend it's just another mode and try some chords over pretty much anything you've snapped to chromatics, but it will not always work the way it does with major/minor).
For example Balkan and Middle-Eastern popular folk musicians have explored Dorian, Phrygian and Phrygian Dominant (Hicaz) across all ends for hippidy turbo-folk tripe (not in a scholarly way, but through experimentation and jamming). So there is a decent idiomatic harmonic theory on these modes in these styles, yet it still would not work for eg. Jazz (tho some Gipsy Jazz does bite from Balkan/Turkish popular folklore) or Turkish classical music in enharmonic modes to these modes etc.
Obviously a computer still can’t throw a television out of a hotel window or get drunk and be sick on the carpet, so there is little danger of them replacing drummers for some while yet. -- Nick Mason
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- KVRist
- 103 posts since 6 Feb, 2012
Well one can theorize about what it COULD possibly be, and trump one another with more and more exotic and academical-sounding descriptions, 
but we know nothing of the piece, and the opening post was a rather simple question: "Which scale has these notes, and what's up with those three semitones".
If this is Western music, I'd say the most probable and least confusing answer is "D minor has them". And the "three semitones" can easily be the minor third of the D minor scale.
but we know nothing of the piece, and the opening post was a rather simple question: "Which scale has these notes, and what's up with those three semitones".If this is Western music, I'd say the most probable and least confusing answer is "D minor has them". And the "three semitones" can easily be the minor third of the D minor scale.
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- KVRian
- 1002 posts since 1 Dec, 2004
It's just D minor natural without the 3rd.