OK, so before I get flamed here for posting yet another article about headphones for home studio use, let me cut to the quick.
I now own 3 sets and I can tell you that if you think you want to mix on phones, there are some pros and cons and probably no one set of phones is going to get you where you need to go, although some seem to get close. But read on!
The problem I have is that virtually no store around where I live carries the phones I am interested in getting, so I've had to rely on reviews (which can be skewed either way) and really can't listen to what I'm getting before I get it.
History:
AUDIOTECHNICA ATH-M50s
I started by getting a pair of AudioTechnica ATH-M50s and these are a solid set of headphones for the price. Probably better than most of the competition at this price range. Personally, I think they have a good "overall" sound that works for a variety of music. However, they are a bit pronounced in the bass, and this somewhat muddies the mids, but not noticeably until you compare them to the second set of phones I got:
BEYERDYNAMIC DT770 Pro (80ohm)
These are really nice sounding, and the soundstage is big, the mids are FAR more clear and separated than the M50s above, but they seem to lack the punch of the bass from the M50s. I'd say the mids and spatial clarity are the best part of these phones.
But neither of the two above sets nailed the one area that is SO hard to get right on headphones: BASS. So, I scoured the internet for bass-heavy consumer phones and finally settled for a pair of V-moda M-100s. Yes, they definitely deliver in the bass department, but other than that, they kind of sound bad next to the M50s and the 770s.
So, I am just asking out there, are there any other headphones that you would say gets it ALL right? The DT770s are the best I own, but I'll still have to switch over to the M-100s for measuring bass levels.
I have heard good things about Sony MDR7506. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
PS: We are talking CLOSED back headphones.
PPS: I'd say that the DT770s are technically the "best" sounding headphones of the above 3, but the V-modas would make a better gaming headset, and the M50s are a bit more versatile in terms of listening to all genres of music. Just my opinion, of course!
Candidate(s) for 4th Pair of Headphones?
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- KVRAF
- 1821 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
You might want to look at the Focal Spirit Professional Pro Studio headphones.
Among the phones I own are the ATH-M50s. While a great value, I find the bass exaggerated (almost as it they are adding a sub-octave) and the top is a bit to "sugary" for my taste. And (as you note) the mids seem to lack some clarity.
The Focals are just as detailed at the AT. They are present, and they will reveal sibilance in a heartbeat. While a tad lean (controlled) in the lower mids, the bass is full and present - but is tight and controlled. I think they are more honest that the ATH-M50s.
That said, I must say the best phones I own (by a mile) are a pair of Sennheiser HD 650. Open, I know, but they are simply sublime. A perfect compliment to the Focals.
Among the phones I own are the ATH-M50s. While a great value, I find the bass exaggerated (almost as it they are adding a sub-octave) and the top is a bit to "sugary" for my taste. And (as you note) the mids seem to lack some clarity.
The Focals are just as detailed at the AT. They are present, and they will reveal sibilance in a heartbeat. While a tad lean (controlled) in the lower mids, the bass is full and present - but is tight and controlled. I think they are more honest that the ATH-M50s.
That said, I must say the best phones I own (by a mile) are a pair of Sennheiser HD 650. Open, I know, but they are simply sublime. A perfect compliment to the Focals.
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell
http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 23 posts since 12 May, 2012
Well, first of all thanks Mick! I may be able to try out a pair of the focals locally, so I'll give them a look over.
Now, to complicate the matter just a bit there was 1 pair of headphones that I didn't want to bring into the discussion in my original post.
They are my AudioTechinca ATH-A900ti set. I got them in Japan because they are one of the few quality sets actually MADE in Japan, and they were a good deal when I was over there. They were about $300 over there (about $500 here if you can find them). Worth it? Jury is still out, BUT...
When I first got them home and compared them to my Beyer DT700s I was pretty disappointed which is why I didn't bring them up in my original post, they just didn't sound as defined, but I had actually not spent any time burning them in.
Oops! Big mistake.
Now, after a week of leaving all my phones on, all the time, I think the A900tis are actually a bit better than the Beyers. Maybe I jumped the gun too soon! I'm now hearing all kinds of things I never really heard before in the Deadmau5 mixes I am playing. I'm even hearing some "mistakes" in the mixes. Deadmau5 doesn't often screw up the engineering but every once in a while you might catch something a bit off, especially with the delays. Of course, knowing him, I think that might be intentional too.
In any case, I think I'm just going to go with these A900ti phones for now. I can use the Vmodas to check bass, and the Beyers for a second take on the mids. The ATH-m50s are still a good around set, but not as good as the A900ti.
One final note on the V-modas, they look fantastic, and they may be excellent for DJing, but compared to the other 3 sets I have, (listed above) they are kind of crappy sounding. Not that the bass is bad, but they mids are jacked up, there is very little (if any) stage separation, they don't have as much spatial definition as the Beyers or the A900ti set and they aren't as balanced as the M50s. In other words I don't really think they are that good outside of the way they look, some solid construction and possibly use on the dj stand. For $300, don't waste your money!
Anyway, that's my update. Still looking for more sets to try out...
Now, to complicate the matter just a bit there was 1 pair of headphones that I didn't want to bring into the discussion in my original post.
They are my AudioTechinca ATH-A900ti set. I got them in Japan because they are one of the few quality sets actually MADE in Japan, and they were a good deal when I was over there. They were about $300 over there (about $500 here if you can find them). Worth it? Jury is still out, BUT...
When I first got them home and compared them to my Beyer DT700s I was pretty disappointed which is why I didn't bring them up in my original post, they just didn't sound as defined, but I had actually not spent any time burning them in.
Oops! Big mistake.
Now, after a week of leaving all my phones on, all the time, I think the A900tis are actually a bit better than the Beyers. Maybe I jumped the gun too soon! I'm now hearing all kinds of things I never really heard before in the Deadmau5 mixes I am playing. I'm even hearing some "mistakes" in the mixes. Deadmau5 doesn't often screw up the engineering but every once in a while you might catch something a bit off, especially with the delays. Of course, knowing him, I think that might be intentional too.
In any case, I think I'm just going to go with these A900ti phones for now. I can use the Vmodas to check bass, and the Beyers for a second take on the mids. The ATH-m50s are still a good around set, but not as good as the A900ti.
One final note on the V-modas, they look fantastic, and they may be excellent for DJing, but compared to the other 3 sets I have, (listed above) they are kind of crappy sounding. Not that the bass is bad, but they mids are jacked up, there is very little (if any) stage separation, they don't have as much spatial definition as the Beyers or the A900ti set and they aren't as balanced as the M50s. In other words I don't really think they are that good outside of the way they look, some solid construction and possibly use on the dj stand. For $300, don't waste your money!
Anyway, that's my update. Still looking for more sets to try out...
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- KVRian
- 541 posts since 15 Jun, 2011 from Betwixt or between
Shure SRH-940s.
Music can no longer soothe the worried thoughts of monarchs; it can only tell you when it's time to buy margarine or copulate. -xoxos
Discontinue use if rash or irritation develops.
Discontinue use if rash or irritation develops.
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- KVRist
- 347 posts since 7 Sep, 2011
I know they aren't super expensive, but...
I love my Senheiser 280 HD Pros.
They are well balanced and have plenty of bass.
They sound good all around medium and are good reference with my BX5a's.
The mids get a little muddy in the 280s when the mix isn't sitting perfect, so in that case these 280's do show a bad mix.
They don't disort really. Just in the mids a little if it isn't sitting right. Other than that they sound really good. Once again the mids are good but not super great. For me that a bonus so I get to here if I have a bad mix.
I love my Senheiser 280 HD Pros.
They are well balanced and have plenty of bass.
They sound good all around medium and are good reference with my BX5a's.
The mids get a little muddy in the 280s when the mix isn't sitting perfect, so in that case these 280's do show a bad mix.
They don't disort really. Just in the mids a little if it isn't sitting right. Other than that they sound really good. Once again the mids are good but not super great. For me that a bonus so I get to here if I have a bad mix.
Ableton Live 8 Suite 64 Bit, Sylenth1 64 Bit,Rapture, Zeta+2,Synthmaster, Dimenison Pro, Mo' Phatt. and Waves plugs.
DELL i-3770 3.9ghz, 12GB RAM, INTEL SSD,
M-Audio Bx8 D2
Oxygen 49
TC ELECTRONIC impact twin 64 Bit
Fast Track Plus
Grace and love
DELL i-3770 3.9ghz, 12GB RAM, INTEL SSD,
M-Audio Bx8 D2
Oxygen 49
TC ELECTRONIC impact twin 64 Bit
Fast Track Plus
Grace and love
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- KVRist
- 214 posts since 17 Jan, 2003
I have the following MDR7506, DT770, Senheisser HD598, HD380, KNS-8400. And DT770 is my definite favorite among those.
MDR7506 is not bad but can't really compare with DT770. Much less overall clarity and bass is not as good.
HD380 seem to have a bit more bass but annoying kind of bass. It also has problems in lower mids.
HD598 is open thus has a very different more neutral/warm sound. Less bottom end compared to DT770.
KNS-8400 is kind of joke. I use it in the bath tub.
MDR7506 is not bad but can't really compare with DT770. Much less overall clarity and bass is not as good.
HD380 seem to have a bit more bass but annoying kind of bass. It also has problems in lower mids.
HD598 is open thus has a very different more neutral/warm sound. Less bottom end compared to DT770.
KNS-8400 is kind of joke. I use it in the bath tub.
"when you have nothing to say - shut up." -A friend of Luc Besson
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 23 posts since 12 May, 2012
Thanks Gassie and (everyone else!)
Yeah, the DT770s are really good, especially the sound stage and separation of the mids. But there is something that the ATH-M50s do that just make them sound more "alive and warm" than the 770s, but at the cost of losing some of the mid clarity and soundstage. Also, the bass is clear on the 770s, but not really fully present like the M50s. Maybe the 770s are a bit dark and distant for my taste but there is no denying the exceptional sound quality and clarity.
Per a previous post I am starting to look at the Shure SRH1540s now. There aren't very many reviews on them because they are so new (Jan 2014), but the the reviews that exist have been really good and two sites gave them a "perfect 5 out of 5". One site have said that they have never given out that 5 out of 5 for any headset but gave it to the Shures because they "do nothing wrong" in terms of sound. Another site, future-music, said that its the closest to studio monitors that they have heard and that it's hard to imagine better sounding headphones until you put them on. That's a pretty bold statement, especially coming from them, and got my attention. These might be exactly what I have been looking for.
The are described as flat and clear with a slight 2-3 db boost on the bass and a slight tweaking of the high end, but not enough to be annoying or obtuse on either end with very low reaching bass and crystal clear highs. The only gripe they had was in the lower mid range, but it was a nitpick. The real thing that kind of did it for me was when they said that professionals would want this kind of clarity.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that between the Shure SRH1540s and the BD DT770s I will FINALLY be able to mix effectively (i.e. bass!) on headphones, as a reference, and have to do only minor tweaks to the mix for speakers.
I really don't mind having to use two headsets to do the mix, but that's a lot easier than using phones that don't get the low end right, and I have yet to hear any phones that get the low end right without distorting the mids.
So, we'll see...
Yeah, the DT770s are really good, especially the sound stage and separation of the mids. But there is something that the ATH-M50s do that just make them sound more "alive and warm" than the 770s, but at the cost of losing some of the mid clarity and soundstage. Also, the bass is clear on the 770s, but not really fully present like the M50s. Maybe the 770s are a bit dark and distant for my taste but there is no denying the exceptional sound quality and clarity.
Per a previous post I am starting to look at the Shure SRH1540s now. There aren't very many reviews on them because they are so new (Jan 2014), but the the reviews that exist have been really good and two sites gave them a "perfect 5 out of 5". One site have said that they have never given out that 5 out of 5 for any headset but gave it to the Shures because they "do nothing wrong" in terms of sound. Another site, future-music, said that its the closest to studio monitors that they have heard and that it's hard to imagine better sounding headphones until you put them on. That's a pretty bold statement, especially coming from them, and got my attention. These might be exactly what I have been looking for.
The are described as flat and clear with a slight 2-3 db boost on the bass and a slight tweaking of the high end, but not enough to be annoying or obtuse on either end with very low reaching bass and crystal clear highs. The only gripe they had was in the lower mid range, but it was a nitpick. The real thing that kind of did it for me was when they said that professionals would want this kind of clarity.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that between the Shure SRH1540s and the BD DT770s I will FINALLY be able to mix effectively (i.e. bass!) on headphones, as a reference, and have to do only minor tweaks to the mix for speakers.
I really don't mind having to use two headsets to do the mix, but that's a lot easier than using phones that don't get the low end right, and I have yet to hear any phones that get the low end right without distorting the mids.
So, we'll see...
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- KVRAF
- 1959 posts since 4 Nov, 2004 from Manchester
Second nomination for the Focal Sprit Pro's. I spent quite a while trying all the headphones around that price range and those just stood out for me and the credit card came out. Obviously personal preference, but pretty great units for the price point.
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- KVRian
- 659 posts since 25 Sep, 2010
Why the aversion to open-back headphones for mixing? They tend to be more honest in the low end due to fewer issues with resonances in the shells. You do lose isolation, but that's not a problem when you're sitting alone in the studio mixing.
I use ATH-M50s as my day-to-day headphones and they're fine, but overly hyped in the lows and wimpy in the highs. So I often switch to open-backed Sennheiser HD-580s for comparison. They are almost the perfect complement to the AT's, spectrum-wise.
I use ATH-M50s as my day-to-day headphones and they're fine, but overly hyped in the lows and wimpy in the highs. So I often switch to open-backed Sennheiser HD-580s for comparison. They are almost the perfect complement to the AT's, spectrum-wise.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 23 posts since 12 May, 2012
Thanks Kaine and Mr. Baggins!
Bilbo,
I don't have an aversion to open back headphones, but my living situation requires closed back. The other people don't appreciate hearing what I'm working on for hours on end which is also why I don't use studio monitors. If I lived on my own, I'd convert one of the rooms into a proper monitoring room with monitors and a sub.
Kaine,
The focal pros got really good reviews and they WERE my first choice and I was really excited to get a pair (and thought my search had ended), but then I went online to more thoroughly go through the reviews, sadly I found review after review that talked about poor build quality and cracking, crumbling plastic after a few months of use. I've had headphones where the plastic crumbled, but they were cheap ass headphones, not ones that cost $350.
I was really disappointed, but that quality at that price is a deal breaker.
Reluctantly, I had to keep looking which was when I made this post.
The good news is that I found the Shure SRH1540s and more than one person has likened them to the Sennheiser HD650s, only with a closed back, and a very slight boost on the bass and treble. Sounds like what I'm looking for, but still open for more suggestions. I have sell some things before I can put down $500 on a headset, so I have time.
Thanks again! =)
Bilbo,
I don't have an aversion to open back headphones, but my living situation requires closed back. The other people don't appreciate hearing what I'm working on for hours on end which is also why I don't use studio monitors. If I lived on my own, I'd convert one of the rooms into a proper monitoring room with monitors and a sub.
Kaine,
The focal pros got really good reviews and they WERE my first choice and I was really excited to get a pair (and thought my search had ended), but then I went online to more thoroughly go through the reviews, sadly I found review after review that talked about poor build quality and cracking, crumbling plastic after a few months of use. I've had headphones where the plastic crumbled, but they were cheap ass headphones, not ones that cost $350.
I was really disappointed, but that quality at that price is a deal breaker.
Reluctantly, I had to keep looking which was when I made this post.
The good news is that I found the Shure SRH1540s and more than one person has likened them to the Sennheiser HD650s, only with a closed back, and a very slight boost on the bass and treble. Sounds like what I'm looking for, but still open for more suggestions. I have sell some things before I can put down $500 on a headset, so I have time.
Thanks again! =)
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- KVRAF
- 1821 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
Do take this with a grain of salt. FWIW, I've had mine for about 6 months. They get used almost every day. I've had no problem at all with the build. Certainly no crumbling plastic.lsc9x wrote:The focal pros got really good reviews and they WERE my first choice and I was really excited to get a pair (and thought my search had ended), but then I went online to more thoroughly go through the reviews, sadly I found review after review that talked about poor build quality and cracking, crumbling plastic after a few months of use. I've had headphones where the plastic crumbled, but they were cheap ass headphones, not ones that cost $350.
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell
http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
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- KVRist
- 405 posts since 14 Jul, 2005 from Germany
If not Focal Spirit Pro, maybe German Maestro GMP 8.300 D or 8.35 D.
Build like a tank .
http://headphonescout.com/best-for-stud ... ng-mixing/
Build like a tank
.http://headphonescout.com/best-for-stud ... ng-mixing/
It`s not a bug... it`s a feature!
