IK, REALLY cannot take criticism!

[miden]

Ahh but you do have the power to lock threads...which is what happened to another thread eg: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=410919

Which was explained already, clearly. It was a second iRing thread, that one was locked, the other was left open ready for the complaints. Not much of a conspiracy theory when put that way, and when one points out that any user can lock their own threads. Sorry that this very little thing upset you so, I recommend you complain in the thread that remains open.

There's also a report button on threads, and direct contact via PM if you have issues with what I do (which I've used to explain something directly to you recently and I hope it helped). I'm fine if you'd like to demonize me, but you may want to use more damning "evidence" to do so.

Nope, not upset at all - but you seem to be. There you go again, why go the PM route...obfuscation and misdirection. I have no need to "demonise" anyone...but you do seem to "hoist yourself by your own petard"

The same has been done at IK Forums, where this "power" IS exercised!

Anyway, the point is made, nothing more can be achieved...so moving right along.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

@kmonkey - Your conjecture is more conspiracy theory, yes. And I already covered how Gearslutz is handled outside of any company intervention (and not unique to IK threads) and and I don't find it weird here (except in that I don't see some of the alleged deleted threads as mentioned above). Seems I've covered your question already. Sorry to disappoint, but it does make for some good drama and you can accuse and/or theorize all you want but it won't make it true. This is actually getting absurd, even for KVR standards.

[Edited to address kmonkey as I didn't quote, oops.]

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Ahh but you do have the power to lock threads...which is what happened to another thread eg: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=410919

Which was explained already, clearly. It was a second iRing thread, that one was locked, the other was left open ready for the complaints. Not much of a conspiracy theory when put that way, and when one points out that any user can lock their own threads. Sorry that this very little thing upset you so, I recommend you complain in the thread that remains open.

There's also a report button on threads, and direct contact via PM if you have issues with what I do (which I've used to explain something directly to you recently and I hope it helped). I'm fine if you'd like to demonize me, but you may want to use more damning "evidence" to do so.

Nope, not upset at all - but you seem to be. There you go again, why go the PM route...obfuscation and misdirection. I have no need to "demonise" anyone...but you do seem to "hoist yourself by your own petard"

The same has been done at IK Forums, where this "power" IS exercised!

Anyway, the point is made, nothing more can be achieved...so moving right along.

I'm not upset, I've jumped into this thread because it is very amusing. I do find absurdity of this level quite humorous. I also find it absurd that you think it is a BAD thing to speak directly about whatever issue you have with me or IK. You seem happy enough to jump into any IK-related thread but unwilling to discuss it directly and clear the air that way? I get it, that's your approach and I tried the direct approach finding you absolutely uninterested in it so I've done my part.

[Numanoid]

SO in reference to that thread, I create this one for folks to keep posting genuine complaints and issues, without the threat of big brother IK stepping in....

So far I have mainly only good experiences with IK Multimedia

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

SO in reference to that thread, I create this one for folks to keep posting genuine complaints and issues, without the threat of big brother IK stepping in....

So far I have mainly only good experiences with IK Multimedia

Let me know what I can do to change that! I hear there are 15 users signed up to the "Occupy KVR" movement in order to help, though, perhaps you can seek them out in their hideout and see what they can do. I'd offer to PM you but apparently direct contact to resolve, or in this case cause, issues is a no-no.

[ghettosynth]

I made some for everybody. Yeah, I'm like that sometimes.

[standalone]

Are you not finding it a bit weird that lately several people here and on gearslutz reported deleted and missing threads on gearslutz, kvr and ik own fourm?

I don't follow either the IK forum nor gearslutz, but I have seen a lot of FALSE, and rather hysterical, claims about threads deleted here over the years. Not only related to IK.

I would say that, here at Kvr, 90% of those claims end up being simply a mistake, a misunderstanding or a manipulation, like in this case.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Well you know what they say: 90% of mistakenly-made hysterical claims cause misunderstandings about manipulation. Or something like that.

[Hink]

Ahh but you do have the power to lock threads...which is what happened to another thread eg: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=410919

Which was explained already, clearly. It was a second iRing thread, that one was locked, the other was left open ready for the complaints. Not much of a conspiracy theory when put that way, and when one points out that any user can lock their own threads. Sorry that this very little thing upset you so, I recommend you complain in the thread that remains open.

There's also a report button on threads, and direct contact via PM if you have issues with what I do (which I've used to explain something directly to you recently and I hope it helped). I'm fine if you'd like to demonize me, but you may want to use more damning "evidence" to do so.

Nope, not upset at all - but you seem to be. There you go again, why go the PM route...obfuscation and misdirection. I have no need to "demonise" anyone...but you do seem to "hoist yourself by your own petard"

The same has been done at IK Forums, where this "power" IS exercised!

Anyway, the point is made, nothing more can be achieved...so moving right along.

I'm not upset, I've jumped into this thread because it is very amusing. I do find absurdity of this level quite humorous. I also find it absurd that you think it is a BAD thing to speak directly about whatever issue you have with me or IK. You seem happy enough to jump into any IK-related thread but unwilling to discuss it directly and clear the air that way? I get it, that's your approach and I tried the direct approach finding you absolutely uninterested in it so I've done my part.

you're a better man than I Peter, like I have said in this thread and another I can relate due to my time in retail. I got quite tired of putting out fires and taking heat for the boss. In my case things I had to deal with "how much is it really?", everyone expecting a discount and yes people would get tothe point of where we would be concerned because of over reactions when we didn't give them the deal they wanted (often a deal that would get us fired). But worse was the last store I worked at had a few issues, one was the repair department. with as many stores throughout the Northeast that Daddy's Junky Music had the repair shop was seriously backed up, ran by the owners son and very mismanaged. Nothing worse than dealing with the customer whose instrument or gear has been in the shop for six months or more, they took it out on us and not who was really responsible and yes we took extreme abuse.

Then came trade ins and buying gear, people who forgot the store was a business and we are not going to give a customer what we will sell gear for. I use to tell people "be honest with yourself and ask yourself how much you would pay for this used and expect about 40% of that".

I got threatened, screamed at, called every name in the book and that really sucked (the only good side is any gear a salesman bought or took in on tradde got a piece of the sale when it sold even if they didn't sell it). On a purchase over 100 dollars we had to call the manager of the day who was on duty for purchases and trades (in different stores everyday), we would look up the info in not only the Orion blue book but because Daddy's had so much used gear they kept a database on what everything was bought for sold for, how much we paid and how long it took to sell it. We would then calculate what we thought was fair based on the info and Daddy's formula and call the manager for approval. We would say, "I'm thinking 500 dollars for a trade, 400 for a purchase, I'm thinking asking price of 799 with a min of 749" and then that was locked in if we bought it The rule was to never make that call in front of the customer...5% of purchases and trades went well, the rest were rough. It was tough lowballing people but it was my job and it wasn't me...but I would take the heat (well every salesman).

I think the roughest was the guy who had Otari tape machines, Daddy's had a policy by then. ABSOLUTELY NO TAPE MACHINES BESIDES 4-TRACK CASSETTE...and 4-tracks we paid almost nothing for. If you violated this rule you were gone. This poor guy needed the money to keep his home, he paid a lot for the gear and was selling it out of desperation. He didn't want to part with it but he had no choice and I couldn't buy it, worse I could not make a side deal or I would have been fired...that sucked (this area really has very few pawn shops as well)...I could not do it any longer even though most customers walked away happy I got tired of being a whipping post.

now to the other side of the coin

You know those guys who came in complaining about their gear being in the shop for months? I would be angry too (actually I am a very tough customer so that's a bit of an understatement), most of the time they bought the gear from us
and the truth is they paid good money and deserve the support that should come with the price they paid. Many of these people called weekly or even more often and they were getting very upset and again, who could blame them? If I gave them the number to the repair shop I would be out of a job because HQ didn't want to deal with that. That was my job.

What about trades and such, a guy comes in with a Gibson Les Paul, we see similar models have sold for 1000 dollars used and Orion says about the same (just an example here). If it was in awesome shape we might work our way up to 500 dollars on a trade and 400 dollars on a purchase (that was within the guidelines) but we were expected to start low, at say 350 dollars. How many Leps Paul owners here would not be offended by such an offer? Who took the heat? The salesmen...until a few years ago when Daddy's closed up overnight...but I can go back decades remembering hating shopping there...but it was my job. But I sure understand the frustration, now and then.

So like I say you're a better man than I Peter, I had to bail...I just couldn't take the stress anymore of being abused by my customers and the company I worked for. Trust me, I wanted to change the way things were, I didn't think they were fair but hell, what say did I have? Meanwhile I would empathize with the customer and that would be genuine but still because of the customers attitude would come across as condescending...no win situation. It can only be much worse for you because I only had to deal with customers that came into my store, you have to deal with customers all over the world. At least I was thrown to a much smaller pack.

So you have my respect and support as a friend (as you know I am not a big fan of IK, but that does not change our friendship) and I hope some people will read this and try to put themselves in your shoes...it's your job, you need a job and taking it out on you wont help. You can leave or they can get rid of you but that wont change a thing, there will be somebody to fill your shoes...there always is, I find that some people glamorize these types of jobs having no idea how much hate and anger those doing these jobs must endure...please people remember, you probably want to keep your jobs as well because if you dont do your job someone else will...Peter has a job, he's a good person and an asset here at KvR...please do not make him the villain...lay the blame where it is due

[ghettosynth]

with as many stores throughout the Northeast that Daddy's Junky Music had the repair shop was seriously backed up, ran by the owners son and very mismanaged. Nothing worse than dealing with the customer whose instrument or gear has been in the shop for six months or more, they took it out on us and not who was really responsible and yes we took extreme abuse.

Oh man, consumer electronics repair, what a racket. Did they pay their techs on commission? That's how it was when I worked in the industry. 50% of the billable labor and 5% of parts, IIRC. Sometimes the owner adjusted the bill for the customer and you just had to take the loss. Commission leads to cherry picking of the tickets. Things that are hard to repair get pushed to the side. Oh sure, a tech might take the ticket, but it's damned easy to find some reason why it's been put back on the bench; waiting for parts, waiting for tech docs, etc. This was all back when we repaired to the component level, today it's mostly board swaps. That doesn't change the fact, however, that some things are just damned hard to work on.

It was also irritating when customers didn't listen. I repaired a lot of amps and it was always the same story. The owner ran some ratty speaker cable under the carpet and it shorted and blew a channel. Whenever a channel with a blown amp came in I'd ask if they had spliced speaker cable, almost always it was yes. I'd tell them, after fixing their amp, that if they didn't replace the cable that they were just going to blow it again. Some percentage of the dumbasses would ignore this and just hook it right back up, poof. Of course they expect you to fix it for free the second time.

[Hink]

with as many stores throughout the Northeast that Daddy's Junky Music had the repair shop was seriously backed up, ran by the owners son and very mismanaged. Nothing worse than dealing with the customer whose instrument or gear has been in the shop for six months or more, they took it out on us and not who was really responsible and yes we took extreme abuse.

Oh man, consumer electronics repair, what a racket. Did they pay their techs on commission? That's how it was when I worked in the industry. 50% of the billable labor and 5% of parts, IIRC. Sometimes the owner adjusted the bill for the customer and you just had to take the loss. Commission leads to cherry picking of the tickets. Things that are hard to repair get pushed to the side. Oh sure, a tech might take the ticket, but it's damned easy to find some reason why it's been put back on the bench; waiting for parts, waiting for tech docs, etc. This was all back when we repaired to the component level, today it's mostly board swaps. That doesn't change the fact, however, that some things are just damned hard to work on.

It was also irritating when customers didn't listen. I repaired a lot of amps and it was always the same story. The owner ran some ratty speaker cable under the carpet and it shorted and blew a channel. Whenever a channel with a blown amp came in I'd ask if they had spliced speaker cable, almost always it was yes. I'd tell them, after fixing their amp, that if they didn't replace the cable that they were just going to blow it again. Some percentage of the dumbasses would ignore this and just hook it right back up, poof. Of course they expect you to fix it for free the second time.

I dont know how they got paid at the repair shop, it was the owner's son so I have no clue. I came to the company in a different way, I came from a huge store, was recruited and worked for the store for several months before they sent me to Daddy's University...yes that's what it was called...every employee spent a few weeks learning everything at the company HQ in NH...so by the time I got to Daddy's U I knew everyone there including the son who ran the repair shop. I would have lunch with him and tbh before I worked there I had issues with the repair shop. However once I got to know him I had an inside track, but I just assumed (as he did I'm sure) that he got good money because he was the heir apparent to the chain.

You're right, often there are good reasons for a repair taking a long time, for instance then Korg owned Marshall (not sure if they still do, haven't even thought about it in years). Getting Marshall parts was like pulling teeth, as I recall fender wasn't all that easy to deal with either.

What got me was "buy a guitar and get a free set-up", I would have been happy to do this in my store like I did in another chain I worked at...but that was not allowed, a free set-up meant sending the guitar to the shop...imagine getting a new guitar and having to wait a month to have it set-up That's enough to get anyone really angry but I had no problem taking the time to show someone how to set intonation and do basic repairs (even would draw wiring diagrams for pups)...after all these people were my customers and I wanted them to come back to me.

I had some customers that listened, at the time I had problems with my cable at my home and the repair guy that always came from comcast (but I think it was mediaone then) was a customer of mine. He would see my address on his job list for the day and bring his gear with him or have a ton of questions. But you're right, the customers didn't like to listen and sometimes it was just plain silly, like spliced wires, broken strings, people who messed with the truss rod (so the strings looked like a suspension bridge) and then say "that's how it was when I bought it" or "your repair shop did that" (the latter actually often being true )...but when you would ask "did you do this"...they would always deny it expecting it to be repaired for free and when I worked in the small store by myself often I would fix it for free.

OT: I think one of the things I hated the most was selling a compressor to people who obviously had no idea what they did, how they worked and such. I never counted those sales on my tally, I counted on them being returns (of course when pros came in it was a different story)..."hey this thing you sold me is crap, it's broken, the only knob that works right is the gain control. This thing does not do what it suppose to do"

"Well what do you think it does?"

"it's suppose to make my music sound better (or make my guitar sustain forever) but when I turn the knobs it doesn't because it is broken"

"well, it's a dynamic processor, not an effect and as such the results are far more subtle"

"Look when I turn this knob nothing happens, it's not doing anything because it's broken"

"I'm sorry, let me try to explain because it is doing something"

"f'you, you dont know what you're talking about I want my money back"

Then they take the money and what would they do? Go across the street to GC and by another compressor (of course the opposite of this happened often enough too)

Nope, dont miss the game one bit

[trimph1]

Well you know what they say: 90% of mistakenly-made hysterical claims cause misunderstandings about manipulation. Or something like that.

Yep. So true....

[D.H. Miltz]

Usually people coming from your own forum as a sort of refugee - reporting that someone deleted negative threads. Well since they are deleted and since even these reports are being deleted i can claim a pink elephant in the sky - but i can tell you right away i did not see this behavior in such time frame from any other company.

[emphasis added]

Your accuracy on this point leaves something to be desired.

Edit: Since the thread in that link is in Off Topic and locked, it will eventually fall off the edge of KVR, but for posterity, behold kmonkey's accuracy (and the apparent failure to even register, much less acknowledge, that what he posted there and repeated here was demonstrably false):
http://web.archive.org/web/201405240002 ... 5&t=410136
http://web.archive.org/web/201405240009 ... d&start=15

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Usually people coming from your own forum as a sort of refugee - reporting that someone deleted negative threads. Well since they are deleted and since even these reports are being deleted i can claim a pink elephant in the sky - but i can tell you right away i did not see this behavior in such time frame from any other company.

[emphasis added]

Your accuracy on this point leaves something to be desired.

Wow, I never even saw that one! Of course the thread that was allegedly removed and caused that knee-jerk reaction actually came to a positive conclusion for OP (and some of it was through direct contact - at their request, believe it or not on either point that it was their request or that direct contact between two rational human beings was effective!). Seems the thread linked above by D.H. Miltz and this one could use that Office Space guy's invention:

(A "Jump to Conclusions" mat)

[RunBeerRun]

I had a dream a couple months back when I wasn't playing much music, that IK wrote me a letter. I guess the gist was they're willing to provide stuff, but I like the simpler route.

I should get a cut off the top, though, don't u think? It's my subconcious, too.