KVR Audio

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:33 am

All I can remember about hardware is bankrupting myself every six months for some new piece of gear.

When some hardware afficianado insists this particular hardware sounds sounds miles better, I'm convinced he's just turned the volume up

Hardware offers lessons to be learned sure, but ...

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:42 pm

I think software 'will' see off hardware in the long run, but right now I feel its not there. When you pay the prices you do for hardware, manufacturers know they have to come up with the goods. And that they do imo. Where as, when you pay 100usd for a vst, its different. You dont expect as much, and you dont get as much if you know what i mean. The day when hardware manufacturers start to focus on vst's (and charge comparitive prices to hw models), then we will really see what soft synths can do. Virus Powercore is the proof in the pudding for me. I honestly believe that its not any limitation of native systems that holds vst's back - its the market place itself. People still see vst's as inferior to h/w, and arent prepared to pay the prices required for serious 'classic' instruments. And until vst's are universally considered on par with hw synths, we will have to continue to settle for second best.

I dont know if this pays any relevance to the purpose of this thread, but eitherway, its my thoughts on the issue.

blaster78 · Post by **blaster78** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:48 pm

tee boy wrote:I honestly believe that its not any limitation of native systems that holds vst's back - its the market place itself. People still see vst's as inferior to h/w, and arent prepared to pay the prices required for serious 'classic' instruments. And until vst's are universally considered on par with hw synths, we will have to continue to settle for second best.

Not sure if I agree with this, imo i can get sounds out of a free vsti now that i couldn't have hopes for from some of the "expensive" hardware i've owned over the years.

I think that the day you are forced to pay £1000's for vstis would be a very sad one indeed. software is cheaper because it doesn't require the plastic/metal box, screen, or infact any of the electronics. not because it's inferior.

amoebe · Post by **amoebe** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:06 pm

I think there are two important differences between hard- and software.
Since hanrdware is so expensive you really, really have to want to own one, invest in it (in time, not in money), play it (not just mousejock some notes in a sequencer), basically learn it inside out. With a much cheaper softsynth there's no such pressure, so you might never get to know it from head to toe. The price difference is the essential part here though, Not the metal/wood/plastic cover.
There is another important difference between hard and software. And that's the presence of the hardware synth with all it's real controllers, knobs and sliders. No real looking mousedriven GUI will ever be able to replace that.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:51 pm

Once, not so long ago, this kind of thread would have generated some serious heat. It's a measure of how much software has come to dominate the market that It's unlikely to now.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:03 pm

which is it that makes the noises?
i like that one

mystahr · Post by **mystahr** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:08 pm

opiadream · Post by **opiadream** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:11 pm

this vendetta...
this sicilian thing
it must end

or I shall unleash mega-babs on your tiny continent.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:16 pm

Too much time wasted worrying, not enough time writing. Need I say more?

Devon

tetraplan · Post by **tetraplan** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:17 pm

opiadream wrote:

Where's Robert Smith when you need him?

Groet, Erik

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:25 pm

opia

this vendetta...
this sicilian thing
it must end

or I shall unleash mega-babs on your tiny continent.

Brilliant

Devon

Too much time wasted worrying, not enough time writing. Need I say more?

Speak for yourself

I got MY tune done for this week

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:26 pm

kevvvvv wrote:
Speak for yourself

I got MY tune done for this week

ha! 1 a week

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:29 pm

vurt wrote:
kevvvvv wrote:
Speak for yourself

I got MY tune done for this week

ha! 1 a week

The vurt master speaks!

Devon

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:34 pm

kevvvvv wrote:Devon
Too much time wasted worrying, not enough time writing. Need I say more?
Speak for yourself

I got MY tune done for this week

Was that an offer to come over and help with babysitting?

Ok, here's my song from last week. Where's yours?

Devon

waveriderarts · Post by **waveriderarts** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:15 pm

I agree that VSt sound nearly as good as some hardware, or in some case better than some hardware... but as far as interfaces for making music, hardware still dominates!!!

I made music with a lit of stuff in my life, and nothing beats being surrounded by a Tr-808, 909, one or two TB303, a CR78, analog sequencers and a truckload of analog synths. I had all that for some years, before it became vintage and was cheap.

No VST i have ever heard sound like the originals. I had some of those; so I really can compare. Someone who thinks Rebirth sounds like the real thing or that P53 sounds like a prophet is uninformed in my opinion.

And having the real thing in front of you, turning real analog knobs, for exemple the tuning or decay of the 808 bass drum, or sliders on my Roland SH-1 or SH-2, is unmatched by any experience I had on the computer. Have you ever turned an unstepped filter knob??? All those knobs have infinite resolution guys, not just 127 values.

I just cannot match, right know, with any software, the ease of use and sound power I had with all those instruments in front of me.

If Roland thinks they are in trouble because of the VST stuff, I would say to them wake up! You OWn music making interfaces! Start putting out products that make use of the stuff you had in the era of the TR808 and all. Nothing touches that in the computer world right now.

And if you are a gigging musician, playing live for more than once, good luck with your computer setup. See how it hold its own on the road, see how long the changes are between songs in front of the public. See what happens when you crash live. Twiddling knobs in your bedroom is another story, playing live with everything pre-recorded just playing with the cutoff is another, and putting out a real-time perforance live where you really play music in front an audience is another.

BTW, if hardware is not superior those would not exist:
Opensynth
http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/431.html
PlugZilla
http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/432.html

That is how it all ends up anyway, if you are going to tour the world with your music, from hardware to computer back to hardware!

I know here knob fiddlers think they are really good, collect gear rather than use it, and know I won`t change their mind. I see some of those people do the worst shows ever, like a buch of nerds in front of their labtops, stuff like that happens all the time and are the main reason why so may people hate techno.

Long live rock and roll!

Do not say that to anyone, but if I use a computer and VSTs it is because it is cheaper! Not better.

Software v Hardware