IK Multimedia creating unpurchased Custom Shop *.dlls

[Compyfox]

I think you forgot to add that the user can choose during install what he wants to install.
Stay with the truth...

If so, my bad.

I remember I was pretty frakin' pissed off to notice that installer had dumped the entire plug-in package on my hard drive. Maybe I did something wrong during the installation.

Doesn't bother me now since I've demoed them and they're top plug-ins.

So? Nomad Factory also asks to download the whole bundle every time you update or something. Yet you can install individual packs.

Same with Waves - the main critism that you can read over and over "I only have Plugin X, but I need to download 1,5GB every time to update!".



IKM aren't the only ones that offer too large installers. But they were highly criticized for the fact that you needed an Online Rig or a very complicated scheme in order to unlock your bought plugins as individual DLLs if you didn't want to use the shell. Waves got a fan-created DLL extracter for this purpose.


Still - on one hand, people are pissed that they can't unlock their individual DLL's. Now they're all extracted from the download package and it's too much on the HDD.

Crazy world we live in.

[Breeze]

The interesting part is that the size is pretty much the same as before, yet you get to access the plugins separately because the dlls (very very small files) link back to split packages rather than the old big compressed component file. It doesn't make the size any different than before... just splits them in the program folder.

*wonders if anyone actually looked at the old install files*

This isn't aimed at you Breeze (or anyone really), it just suddenly occured to me to mention it.

No, not feeling fingered out.

The fact is that other than the inelegant installation/disabling methodology, the dll's in the VST folders aren't the issue because they're just pointers anyway. It's the fact that the plugin 500MB archive in the IKM install folder has to there whether you use the plugins or not that bothers me:



I say lets nip this in the bud now, before more devs start doing this and plugin libraries grow even bigger otherwise we'll end up with gigabytes of data on our drives and backups for no convenience of ours.

[robotmonkey]

Still - on one hand, people are pissed that they can't unlock their individual DLL's. Now they're all extracted from the download package and it's too much on the HDD.

Crazy world we live in.

I think the problem is that also a bunch of demo plugins are installed without any acknowledgement not that the installer is too big.

And with Waves you do not need to download all the 1.2 gb if your DAW is connected to the internet. You would use online installer that downloads only the plugins you need. The 1.2 gb full installer is meant for those who need to do a complete offline install.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Just a couple quick notes - the Custom Shop app does not need to run unless you are demoing a plugin (applies to both T-RackS and AmpliTube). There appears to be some confusion on this point.

Also, I hope anybody here who uses another company's plugins that do exactly the same thing (in fact installing their whole line, not just the units that make up a single suite out of multiple flagship products) has also filed their complaints with them too. We didn't see a lot of complaints about that online, so this seemed like a good solution to multiple issues as noted above.

I'm not confused about that bit. What happened here, does not happen with any vendor other than IKMM in my actual experience. If it did, I would have the same view. If the vendor that did came in constantly telling us our complaint isn't valid, I would have the same view of that as well.

I don't recall doing anything other than installing Custom Shop. I installed Custom Shop because I was trying to use Amplitube 3. I had to recover everything I had bought through Custom Shop. I wish I had known this, I wish I had never wasted all that time with AT3. For me it's a lot of nothing. Remember though, I have every bit of AT2.

So now I have these duplicates of all of the TRackS plugins [edit: that I've bought] and I stupidly or blindly instantiated some in a number of templates. I cannot simply delete them. I have now the option of going through multiple templates in VE Pro to copy settings and reinstantiate the NORMAL versions, or leave many duplicates on my hard drive.

This is stupid. (So I'm part of the stupid, but I don't know why these things are even there. They do not seem to be better versions. I knew there were two versions but maybe one is updated? I think not, having looked at it. They have a way to open Auth Manager directly.)
No argument you can make about the problems it addressed makes it otherwise. I say it is quite a baroque solution to that complaint above. Do you think I buy that this was THE solution?
This particular post is why people tire of your presence here, frankly.

It isn't enough to explain away someone's issue, you have to create a straw man and be bellicose to your customers having that bash at it. The entire experience of these new things has meant little more than time wasted for me. It's too much to worry about, it's a very baroque way. Are you seeing these complaints? At what point does this become 'a lot of' complaints? But no, you've got to be just golden.

Feel free to reopen any technical support tickets you have related to duplicates and such, as it sounds like you are still having a technical issue there that they should be able to help with and advise on about how IK plugins are working on your system (or are not, in this case). I did explain why this is, and won't name other companies but I know there are others that do install everything (and again not just one product's plugins, but all of their plugins) and get nary a complaint here (but they are not IK so...). And of course I relay the complaints and I'm not saying that you are wrong to have your opinion about it, but please don't assume that my explanation about this solving multiple issues and being done in a way that others do is dismissing your specific feelings about it. I'm sorry you feel that was implied, and I'm sorry you are not having an optimal experience with IK plugins. Support is the way to get these things resolved for you and if you are still not satisfied with how your issues have been handled, I'd be glad to help if I could get any related ticket numbers.

I'm also sorry that you tire of my presence but I get more positive feedback than negative, so I suppose you could use the "foe" functionality if you don't want to read what I have to say as I understand you are not a fan. Others are, and feel I'm an asset here and I will remain so I hope you find the solutions to that particular problem less "baroque" than you find the solutions mentioned above. However, your issues can be handled directly with IK from what I see and since I don't seem to please you with any response I can give, I'll likely refrain from here on in if that will help. Especially since I also find that being yet another person you hurl the whole "straw man" (makes me yawn, man) counterargument at quite tiring too. So let's call it even and get you over to someone at IK that might be a better fit for helping you with your issues.

[donato]

Peter, with all due respect your argument of saying, "I hope anybody here who uses another company's plugins that do exactly the same thing...has also filed their complaints with them too" is essentially the equivalent of saying, "Yes, we're complete assholes, but we're not the only ones, so don't single us out!". I guess you don't seem to understand that, so I've taken it upon myself to point it out to you.

[Hink]

Peter, with all due respect your argument of saying, "I hope anybody here who uses another company's plugins that do exactly the same thing...has also filed their complaints with them too" is essentially the equivalent of saying, "Yes, we're complete assholes, but we're not the only ones, so don't single us out!". I guess you don't seem to understand that, so I've taken it upon myself to point it out to you.

that would be more accurate if it were Peter who made the decision...I do understand your point (and admire with all due respect) but put yourself in his shoes. His job is to be the whipping post for IK. He's a man, not a machine and sometimes he might say something that comes across wrong, especially when he's running around trying to put out fires with snipers lined up taking shots at him. We all have bad days and bad days at work. That's why I keep saying it's important to separate the man from his job and that does not just apply to Peter (though I have had the good fortune of getting to know him as a person and as a friend).

I think it's appalling that there are so many people online (again, not just on KvR and no one in particular) that cannot argue the points but have to resort to personal attacks and have offensive posts instead of debating the point. (FTR I am not saying you donato are this way, please do not misread that ) I dont like it when politicians do it and I dont like it when I do it.

Also FTR over the years I have been hard on IK and even many times have called KvR IKvR, but my objections were as I see it addressed. My complaint then was how IK reps jumped into many threads of other companies to push their products, I felt that in some threads IK reps would literally gang up on the complainers and you know what? I think that this has changed, I do not see it hardly as often or even the same IK reps here all the time and I know that is thanx to IK listening because I was not the only one complaining and I have no doubt that it started with Peter talking to his supervisors and passing along the complaints...the thing is when companies do listen we drop it and say little more, we want more to complain (and we does indeed include me, but something I am trying to work on) then to acknowledge when they do the right thing in our eyes. Like I said I have been guilty of this too.

@Peter, your last post only shows me how hard you try to keep it professional. I can say from my retail days I had customers that others did not want or could not deal with and vice versa. I got lambasted for speaking out against hate but it's the same thing. Personalities clash, it's going to happen and just like not bothering with something I dislike to the point where I would use the word 'hate' I figure I might just as well leave whatever it is I dont like alone...why waste my time hating it? Just forget it and get on with my life. If I have a problem with someone at a store or customer service I ask for someone else to help me...why bother blasting the person I didn't care for...that's not getting me anywhere, if they were out of line their supervisor will know it.

In fact I had been with the same bank for decades and as they grew things got bad. This winter and spring when the only people that I could seek help from was a call center or one of the revolving branch managers I had it and left the bank. The fact is I said I wanted to talk to corporate HQ (which I have in the past) and they said "oh they do not accept calls from customers anymore"...so I left my bank of all those years and my wife2b followed me. I was sad saying goodbye to the tellers and even the last manger of my branch, it's not their fault but their new policies just rubs me the wrong way.

Now in the interest of honesty, I did really go off on a few reps from the call center from utter frustration (again it happens, though there was no swearing nor did I make personal attacks on them, but I had a lot to say about the bank itself, which you may notice I am not saying the name of), because of my condition hurt me more than them and was foolish...but for 15 years my bank was closer to my house than my mailbox and I did develop friendly relationships with some people there.

I wish people would just separate the person from their job, it's so simple to do. FWIW the more you try the easier it gets...or at least it seems to be getting easier for me...though it's likely I will stumble again

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Thanks, Hink, and thanks donato too. I think the statement can be misunderstood because I'm not saying that either (or any) company doing this is being an a-hole but likely doing so for the same or similar reasons and we did indeed resolve some technical issues by doing so. Hink is right that I don't make the decision, but I can admit that I personally had zero issue with at least one other company doing this and it really didn't even register on my radar as something bad at all (and I did have and still do have MANY plugins and still see this from my perspective and workflow as a non-issue to me personally). I've also stated many many many times that I will and do relay concerns from this forum and others, regardless of my personal feelings or experience using many audio products as I too separate myself and my experiences, opinions, and such from the job. That's not a cop-out, it is just the truth and what I can and do on a daily basis. The people who make the decisions take this data into consideration and decide based on many factors, some of which I'm sure I'm completely unaware.

I can say, though, that changes that have been made and changes that are coming were directly affected by information IK reps have relayed (public-facing, either similar to what I do or folks at trade shows - I guess I qualify for both since I was at NAMM and CES at least... or tech support who probably, no definitely, get a lot worse than I do on a daily basis, and others) so we'll continue to do it.

[rustman]

A couple of thoughts, and they are civil:

1. A rep should not get hammered personally. I've done the hammering and I've done the rep job too, although not in this industry.

2. I will name them, Image Line. I DO like that they load everything on your machine in one smooth download. Drive space is not likely an issue for most people, with the exception of those trying to squeek by on a fairly small SSD. The sticking point for me personally is that IL handles everything behind the scenes, and as far as I know, you don't see a bunch of stuff you don't own. I may be wrong because I have all of their products. But IK places plugins on my list of available plugins when I'm choosing an insert effect, for example. If I don't remember that it's not part of the bundle I bought, then I waste time loading it and then getting the clue. Likewise, putting factory presets into Amplitube 3 that aren't useable without going online and making a purchase is VERY frustrating. I haven't even come close to auditioning all of the presets because the cussing wears me out. I go straight to Guitar Rig instead. It's a shame, because I really like Amplitube.

So....loading a few DLLs is a not issue for me. I go online with my music machine and check out Custom Shop occasionally. I do so without prompting or teasing from my legit software. I do hope IK will add a filter for the Amplitube presets to exclude those that aren't available with the current configuration. Likewise, gray out the unauthorized modules within the T-Racks (CS) shell. I realize this isn't possible within 3rd party DAWs, which leads back to don't display them at all outside of your mastering shells.

[Aural Chaos]

Guess they will write some iOS app to fix it...that seems to be the focus these days, rather than real studio stuff.
.

Guess you didn't realize there is even more hatred coming at IK from iOS users than there is from VST users.
Only company that spams their paying customers with pop up adds...

[LAGinz]

Although I've got huge problems with the whole ST3 debacle, I don't really see such a problem with the T-Racks stuff. If you don't want the demo vsts, just delete them. And if the remaining installer is the problem, delete that too or just move it to a separate storage drive. I also find the T-Racks stuff to be , by and large, very good stuff at good prices.

[zeep]

For argument's sake, i was pleased to see all the other devices dll's installed. I proceeded to demo some which i hadn't bothered to install before, and i might buy one i hadn't planned on.

[frankz00]

I found the answer. If you select a preset that contains a product you don't own, the dll gets created. The solution is to go into your presets and delete all the presets of things you don't own. I don't mind doing this as I'm sure I can reinstall them if I ever buy one of the products I don't own. As I said my problem with that is that it appears as an available plugin in my DAWs. I don't want demo versions showing in my DAW at all.

[frankz00]

Good grief man. Just delete the damn dlls and get over it. What is it, 30 seconds of work? It would probably take you just as long to click which modules you actually own during an install process...

Actually the issue WAS that I had deleted them and they reappeared. I found that this is because scrolling through the presets causes them to be recreated. So it was more than just "30 seconds" until I figured it out. I get what your point is but you missed mine.

As I said, this is remedied by deleting the offending presets.

[Integratron]

Right - like we're all running out of hard drive space! I really don't see any problem when hard drive space is about the same price as dirt these days!

I'm sorry but I think many are making a deal out of nothing... I don't get it!

[Integratron]

I'm not sure if this is the right board to post this but I'm noticing that IK Multimedia is placing dlls that I haven't purchase in my VST directory and when I select it, it tells me it's unpurchased and to go to Custom Shop. I didn't ask for this dll to be placed there and I don't want it taking up real estate on my picklists or my drive. How do I disable this. It seems they are recreated every time I go into T-Racks CS!

This is NOT COOL!

Yes frankz00, this is the right board. AT is an effect not an instrument!