facing LEGAL ISSUE in music rights. please some help??

[dikkiedik]

hi everyone

for the first ime in my carreer i'm facing a legal issue regarding a collaboration that is going down the drain as i speak.

i'll keep it simple and just ask the basic issues i'm confronted with right now.

i have been working together with a singer/songwriter for a couple of years in europe. last year we released a double album. during the production of said album we ran into some personal differences, but still thought we we able to work thing out, ... we weren't ...

last year i decided to not further pursue the collaboration, because it felt like an endless cycle of energy loss. i left my colleague the option to pursue the project further by leaving him all music open in stemmed format, midi files, original recordings and even some transcripts.

since my time away working on other projects (south america) there must have been some kind of grudge that has been growing because two months ago i got a notification stating i should sign contracts giving away the performance rights of the music, and pay a notable sum of money because said colleague would not be able to recover investments made during our working together because of me leaving (particularly album reproduction costs). in the meantime my colleague has forbidden me access to any of my recording equipment currently in his facility and home.

(stupidly enough) no contracts have ever been drafted. i have tried a lot of times to solve this matter in a more human way, but until now i have only got the reply, "sign, or #### off"

i could ask a lot of things, but i'll focuss on the music side. as i am being pressured i would like to know where my rights are.

° we are both registered as the composers and songwriters of all songs

° i am the sole producer of all music (engineering/recording, production, programming, mixing and mastering)

° we both created, and came up with the collaboration's name, logo's and CI.

as i right now feel threatened, could i claim the following (if needed as a last resort):

> could i pull the plug on our music being broadcasted, sold, or performed in any way? (as i own the phonorecord rights(?) )

> could i decide to forbid the use of any name, logo, or brand that we came up with together?

> could i decide no derivatives and such may be made of our work as i am one of the two copyrigh holders of our material?

> ....

i am sure i'm mixing things up here. as said this is the first time things work out this way, and i will be sure to put things into writing from now on.

at the moment i'm only interested in getting my recording gear (and all backups of other projects i'm working on) safe home. i'm still in south america, and will be heading back to europe in a few weeks.

thanks so much for taking the time and helping out,

best regards,

dikkie

[Ben H]

Get a lawyer.

A proper one too... not some bedroom one.

[dikkiedik]

Get a lawyer.

i know this will be the best resort. my biggest problem is two very important projects are lined up two days after my arrival in europe. i know a lawyer should get involved, but i don't see anything coming out of that in the little time i have between my return and the start of those projects.

i'm also afraid that if i drop the word 'lawyer' my former colleague will do something as getting rid of my backups and HD's currently in his possesion. this would be devastating.

right now my concern on this forum is solely the music rights. the general legal issue i will address properly in time with lawyer at my side.

thanks for reacting!

[Harry_HH]

This was my first reaction, too. Not any juridical competence to say anything waterproof - the case, once again shows the importance of pre-made written documents. Harry
P.s. Just a generic side-comment - the fact that the thread starter has made just one 1 (this one) question in the KVR since 2008 shows the difference between those who make music and those who talk the music - lucky you.

[Compyfox]

From my simple understanding:

- You created the majority of the music, so they're your intellectual property.
- It is your studio/your gear, you can (in theory) proof that, you're not forbidden to access that
- these are your projects - some of them are outside of the collaborative effort - if they are being deleted ON PURPOSE, you can ask for a hefty amount of compensation. Since it's not only damaging your personal equipment, your intellectual creations are lost forever, and you will take (harsh spoken) psychological damage as well (lost time, efforts, ideas, etc). Not to mention that this will damage your reputation if you can't deliver.


I also say, get a lawyer. Do not go alone to meetings.

Make clear that you own the rights of all written music content (not the lyrics) post the last CD release - so you have full power over the release unless the other half of the equation also wrote the music. Make clear that it is YOUR studio and gear. Make clear that you both created the Logo's etc and that you either step back from it and then it's done, or refuse to give it out as well.

No further dirty games to play here. Other than the financial part. And if your partner contributed to the disbanding of the project, then it's his fault for the loss of money as well.



Do not sign anything - let it be checked by a lawyer that is specialized in modern media and music rights.
Until then, he can not(!) prohibit you to access your gear and files. Especially not those that are NOT part of your collaborative effort. (this would count as stealing and willful damage to property). Though he can ban you from stepping into his house - it would still be stealing.


Again - theoretically speaking.

As said - get in touch with a lawyer in parallel to recovering your gear and music.
You don't have less to loose than your partner. At least from the current looks of your report.

[dikkiedik]

thanks for taking the time to answer more in depth.

I also say, get a lawyer. Do not go alone to meetings.

yes, i'm afraid too by the looks of it.

You created the majority of the music, so they're your intellectual property.

Make clear that you own the rights of all written music content (not the lyrics) post the last CD release - so you have full power over the release unless the other half of the equation also wrote the music. Make clear that it is YOUR studio and gear. Make clear that you both created the Logo's etc and that you either step back from it and then it's done, or refuse to give it out as well.

We both are registered as the copyrightholders of the music (music AND lyrics) There lies my doubt in what i theoretically could do to prohibit my colleague from doing anything with our music in the future.

Do not sign anything - let it be checked by a lawyer that is specialized in modern media and music rights.
Until then, he can not(!) prohibit you to access your gear and files. Especially not those that are NOT part of your collaborative effort. (this would count as stealing and willful damage to property). Though he can ban you from stepping into his house - it would still be stealing.

This is where i'm at a loss. I know i have the right to my own belongings, but as i left them in his studio/house in good faith and i cannot simply barge in there to get them i don't know how to retrieve them if there's not a court order involved.

Thanks again! Much appreciated!

[Compyfox]

You can still try to say "let me pick up my stuff - I gave it to you in good will and knowledge that you keep an eye on it".

Else, it's stealing and you can use legal action. As hard as it might sound - it is still your property.


I've somewhat been there myself, but I gave up and called it a loss. The stuff that the particular person in question had from me, was only minor material anyway. No musical content. So I was like "meh". In your case however, it's also an investment, your work that you got paid for from another client. He has to give it out.

At least in theory. I'm no lawyer.

[ras.s]

I think you should go to the police station first and explain the situation there. Tell them that it's f**king complicated and you don't know how to deal with it but that the person is basically extortioning you for signing out your rights, without any proof that you'd actually get your gear back even if you sign such a contract. You have to be able to prove that the gear is yours, obviously, but you might have the police go and pick the stuff for you.

[tehlord]

Break in and take your stuff back. It's in his house, so the sad reality is that it's his. He could say you gave it to him and tie you up in a legal battle for years.

[Ghostwave]

I would follow Compyfox's advice.
The first things are to get your gear back and get a lawyer.
If, by the time you're back in Europe, he still doesn't want to let you get your gear back, go to the police station to report theft and extortion. If it ever gets to court, this will be a very bad start for him.
As to proper legal procedure, we could all come up with ideas but ultimately, only a specialised lawyer will know exactly what to do.
It might cost you to begin with but if it's like here in France, if the guys loses, the bill's on him since he started the procedure (but your lawyer needs to ask for it).
There might be a way to settle things between your lawyer, his and a judge. Lawyer are involved because it's their job. They are not sentimental about the issue.

[Hink]

the only proper answer has been given and I dont know why people do not get it yet(these same questions come up often)...if it's of value to you see a lawyer...here everyone thinks they're a lawyer...It it's not worth booking one hour of time with a lawyer it probably isn't worth fighting for

[zerocrossing]

If you can, gather proof of ownership of the gear and contact the police to accompany you to pick it up... and, well unfortunately get a lawyer. Under no circumstances sign anything until you go over the contract with a lawyer. I imagine because no contract was ever signed, that you both have the same 50/50 rights to the music that is created and their asking for damages due to an expectation of future collaboration is just downright silly and impossible to prove.

I've had disagreements turn a band bad but the only thing I really lost was a microphone because I sensed trouble was brewing and got my gear out. I've seen worse though and one thing I never ever did was "go in on a PA" with band members as deals like that are usually doomed.

[kritikon]

1st thing is decide if it's all worth fighting for. If it's not, then you must be prepared to lose whatever the equipment is in the studio. Even if it's not worth fighting for, I personally wouldn't sign anything. From 1st glance he's on very dodgy ground re rights etc, although he's on strong grounds for the equipment if you can't produce receipts for it.

If it's worth fighting for, get a lawyer. I'll repeat this at every sentence. If you fight and you don't get a lawyer, you're an idiot.

Whoever suggested breaking in is an idiot too. You might get your stuff back, but you may also get arrested and also probably lose any chance of resolving it properly. You think a magistrate is going to side with a crim or someone apparently law-abiding?

Get a lawyer

The suggestion about the police is a good one. They probably won't do anything about it (unfortunately for them, it's minor crime barely worth bothering with), but at least you'll have an official record of filing a complaint.

Get a lawyer

Then get a lawyer

Do not ever sign any kind of contract like that without having it checked with a lawyer. I'd be amazed if a lawyer would advise signing it.

As joint copyright holders, you might not be able to stop him getting monetary gain from the music, but you sure as hell will be due proceeds from it, and you'll have legal recourse. But the lawyer you got will be able to confirm this

Get a lawyer

The biggest lesson would be signing some sort of contract at the outset if you're going to collaberate with anyone in future. Doesn't have to be a 50 page tome, just something jotted down with both signatures recording that you do production, writing whatever, they sing, write lyrics whatever and that rights, proceeds will be 50/50 or whatever. For that kind of thing you may not actually need a lawyer, although it's safer that way. It would have stopped all this trouble.

Get a lawyer.

Ignore all the answers here (including mine) and get a lawyer. It'll cost, but it isn't ever going to get settled for free. We only know your side of the story, but it certainly appears you both cannot work with each other and are inimical enough that a 2nd party needs to get involved. His lawyer and yours. Basically he's trying to scare you into something in his benefit. I strongly suspect that if you scare him back with a lawyer's letter, he'll be far more interested in settling amicably. If lawyers take it further, you're both going to pay more than you both gain. If both of you have sense you'll both realise that and sort it out before it goes to court or whatever. Letters from lawyers ain't cheap. Time spent in court or any other endeavour is heinous. It might not be a bad idea to informally let him know that he's going to end up spending his hard earned money on a lawyer too if you decide to tool up with your own.

Consult a lawyer

[Compyfox]

You forgot to say to get a lawyer, kritikon.

[ghettosynth]

I've seen worse though and one thing I never ever did was "go in on a PA" with band members as deals like that are usually doomed.

No doubt. Really, if you want to have more say in your band, it's best to own the sound system yourself. If you do need to pool resources though, you're better off to have each band member purchase usable parts of the sound system individually. This often can work itself out naturally.

This kind of crap is why I never store gear at anyone else's house anymore. I've never really lost anything serious this way, but I'm not sure that I've got all of my cables/mic stands/etc, back from some past bands.