Haven't read these other posts, but if you created the music together without a contract, it doesn't really matter who did what or how much, you co-own the rights. Unless you had a contract, there would be no legal obligation for you to complete the project. Unless your equipment was purchased with his money, it's yours. He has to return it, but I guess he could argue charging you reasonable studio rent. There is nothing you should have to pay. If anything, if he wishes to continue it is he who would need to pay or negotiate with you to sell your rights and sign. He is the one who is "stuck". Strong-arming you is a pretty dumb tactic.
And obviously you need a lawyer. But I would try mediation first. Which would be lawyers negotiating between the two of you without court. It's cheaper.
facing LEGAL ISSUE in music rights. please some help??
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- KVRian
- 1051 posts since 31 Mar, 2012
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 27 Oct, 2008
Thanks everyone for this lively set of responses.
It really convinced me that if things stay the same a lawyer has to step in.
Never thought things would have to come to a point like that, such a pity.
Most of the responses focussed on the material side of things, my equipment in his place, and so on. Is there someone who has a good grip on music rights and could still tell me if these things are still possibilities??:
° we are both registered as the composers and songwriters of all songs
° i am the sole producer of all music (engineering/recording, production, programming, mixing and mastering)
° we both created came up with the collaboration's name, logo's and CI.
as i right now feel threatened, could i claim the following (if needed as a last resort):
> could i pull the plug on our music being broadcasted, sold, or performed in any way? (as i own the phonorecord rights(?) )
> could i decide to forbid the use of any name, logo, or brand that we came up with together?
> could i decide no derivatives and such may be made of our work as i am one of the two copyright holders of our material?
> ....
again thanks again for all the responses. and yes, i will get a lawyer, although i'm in the middle of a extremely busy project on the other side of the world. oh well.
contracts will be a must from now on, sadly.
It really convinced me that if things stay the same a lawyer has to step in.
Never thought things would have to come to a point like that, such a pity.
Most of the responses focussed on the material side of things, my equipment in his place, and so on. Is there someone who has a good grip on music rights and could still tell me if these things are still possibilities??:
° we are both registered as the composers and songwriters of all songs
° i am the sole producer of all music (engineering/recording, production, programming, mixing and mastering)
° we both created came up with the collaboration's name, logo's and CI.
as i right now feel threatened, could i claim the following (if needed as a last resort):
> could i pull the plug on our music being broadcasted, sold, or performed in any way? (as i own the phonorecord rights(?) )
> could i decide to forbid the use of any name, logo, or brand that we came up with together?
> could i decide no derivatives and such may be made of our work as i am one of the two copyright holders of our material?
> ....
again thanks again for all the responses. and yes, i will get a lawyer, although i'm in the middle of a extremely busy project on the other side of the world. oh well.
contracts will be a must from now on, sadly.
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- KVRian
- 1051 posts since 31 Mar, 2012
Yes. Any use would require the permission of both. Of course he can break this rule, and then you'd have to fight it out legally.
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- KVRAF
- 16887 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
As a layman I'd say you are entitled to half of the revenues, if any. Half of nothing is still nothing. But I understand that your ex-partner wants you to sign away the lot, so to him it's apparently worth something! No way you're going to pay compensation.
If I were in your situation, call it a loss. Get back your private property and tell him he can do with all the previous recorded materials whatever he pleases. Like stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Or if it gets any airplay, you get half of the revenues since that's how it is registered. Then the result is nothing at all will be done with the work of that period. None of you will be pleased with it, and no lawyer can change that.
If I were in your situation, call it a loss. Get back your private property and tell him he can do with all the previous recorded materials whatever he pleases. Like stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Or if it gets any airplay, you get half of the revenues since that's how it is registered. Then the result is nothing at all will be done with the work of that period. None of you will be pleased with it, and no lawyer can change that.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. 
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- 10175 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
Can or had the complainant provided a breakdown with evidence of these supposed costs for which he is withholding access to your own property?
Has this person obtained a legal document that indicates he can stop you accessing your property?
If not it would seem he is breaking the law.
Nb: I am not educated in this field!!
Has this person obtained a legal document that indicates he can stop you accessing your property?
If not it would seem he is breaking the law.
Nb: I am not educated in this field!!
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- KVRian
- 505 posts since 2 May, 2014
It's interesting to read comments from people trying to apply the law they don't understand properly in their own countries to another country whose laws they have no understanding of whatsoever. So I'll try to do the same. 
I will give you the legal position regarding your equipment that this person is refusing to release to you as it is in my (European) country:
- This person claims that you owe them money in respect of damages for losses as a result of the incompleted project.
- They are claiming a lien over your equipment in respect of this claim and are entitled to retain possession until the claim is paid or otherwise dealt with.
- Going to the police is pointless because it is a civil matter, not a criminal matter.
- Unless they agree to release the goods, you're going to have to resolve the claim one way or another. This is likely to involve a lawyer.
The exact legal ramifications and how the matter can be resolved will depend on the specific laws of the country concerned. A 'lien' can mean slightly different things in different countries. In some countries a 'lien' has to be agreed to by both parties. In others, it is a common law right to hold the property as security until the debt is paid.
If I was in possession of goods belonging to somebody who I considered owed me money, there's no way I'd hand them over before the debt was paid.
I will give you the legal position regarding your equipment that this person is refusing to release to you as it is in my (European) country:
- This person claims that you owe them money in respect of damages for losses as a result of the incompleted project.
- They are claiming a lien over your equipment in respect of this claim and are entitled to retain possession until the claim is paid or otherwise dealt with.
- Going to the police is pointless because it is a civil matter, not a criminal matter.
- Unless they agree to release the goods, you're going to have to resolve the claim one way or another. This is likely to involve a lawyer.
The exact legal ramifications and how the matter can be resolved will depend on the specific laws of the country concerned. A 'lien' can mean slightly different things in different countries. In some countries a 'lien' has to be agreed to by both parties. In others, it is a common law right to hold the property as security until the debt is paid.
If I was in possession of goods belonging to somebody who I considered owed me money, there's no way I'd hand them over before the debt was paid.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
and this is why the OP should contact a lawyer...what you describe is called conversion...FTR if someone owed me money I would not hold there property hostage, as I understand it that is not leagl where I live.1wob2many wrote:
If I was in possession of goods belonging to somebody who I considered owed me money, there's no way I'd hand them over before the debt was paid.
In the 80's when I got back from the service I went to work for a friend who did landscaping and we cut an split firewood. He bounced three paychecks on me (ftr I am not so stupid that I kept working for him when the checks bounced, three came in in a period of less than a week) and he oweed me another week's pay. AT the time we were using my truck for delivering firewood and I had all our saws and splitter in my truck.
I went in one morning unloaded the equipment and my friend came out fuming when I said I'm done. I had already checked with my lawyer* (well my parents lawyer and he actually hired me to do the same thing because he had a side business) and any attempt after that day to get my money failed. So I took my lawyers advice and went to the labor board.
It took me over two years to see my money and I got less than I was owed**. I would not have done so well had I held his stuff according to the lawyer and the labor board.
*for those who know about how my dad's affairs were handled, yes this is the same lawyer.
**When I was in court the judge saw that Sears was taking him to court the next week so he tried to dispose of it than but my friend said he didn't owe Sears any money (but I know he bounced a check for that same splitter at Sears). I went to court the day Sears had their day because I wanted to see the judge explode...he did not let me down...he sent my friend to jail for 6 months, let him out to work two 40 hour a week jobs until his debt was paid and then he went back to jail for 6 months.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 27 Oct, 2008
thanks for this concise answer. the country we are speaking of is Austria, i'm not Austrian though, but lived there for several years. i will try to find out if claiming a lien there is an individual, or two party matter.- This person claims that you owe them money in respect of damages for losses as a result of the incompleted project.
- They are claiming a lien over your equipment in respect of this claim and are entitled to retain possession until the claim is paid or otherwise dealt with.
- Going to the police is pointless because it is a civil matter, not a criminal matter.
- Unless they agree to release the goods, you're going to have to resolve the claim one way or another. This is likely to involve a lawyer.
The exact legal ramifications and how the matter can be resolved will depend on the specific laws of the country concerned. A 'lien' can mean slightly different things in different countries. In some countries a 'lien' has to be agreed to by both parties. In others, it is a common law right to hold the property as security until the debt is paid.
interesting fact is that is that i'm still registered at the residence at were my belongings are held. this must at least mean that i should be granted access to the house in question. of course if denied i could probably not take anything but could it give me more leeway in a legal matter?