What would make you switch to Linux?

[glokraw]

Young people are more flexible, quicker to learn, and therefore more capable of learning new technologies. I'll stand by that. We older people can think that we can "do it all," but we can't. I'd rather give a kid linux than Windows. Especially if he/she has a curiosity to learn (hack) computers.
brian

The fly in the ointment, is that modern education has largely devolved
into indoctrination, prepping to the test, rather than actually
cultivating a burning desire to learn. Computers, xbox, ipads, cellphones
yada yada yada, are not technologies to learn, they are tools or toys with which
one may easily enhance, or squander their lifes potential, depending on
how you apply your learning.

Within the natural contraints of aging, and society, we can 'do it all'.

There are a few linux versions which are very easy and stable by design,
to get a new computer user, young or old, up to speed,
very easy to learn, maintain, and perform the basics.
Such users become self-sufficient, rather than relying on
a pair of corporate CEO's to decide things for them.
Cheers

[ghettosynth]

Young people are more flexible, quicker to learn, and therefore more capable of learning new technologies. I'll stand by that. We older people can think that we can "do it all," but we can't.

Again, this is myth, stop propagating prejudice. Perhaps you can't adapt to new technology, but that doesn't mean that others can't. Now, if you want to say that old people who never had any mental capacity to begin with are fond of using their age as an excuse for being the same bricks that they were as children, well yes, that happens quite a bit.

In addition to their ability to use new technology, older people have often developed an acute awareness of what is, and what isn't, a waste of time. For example, trying to use linux for audio today, when the necessary surrounding technology and support are not present, is, for most people, a waste of time.

I'd rather give a kid linux than Windows. Especially if he/she has a curiosity to learn (hack) computers.

How sweet.

[glokraw]

Whereas the open-source community of users includes a lot of talented people who will make improvements just for the enjoyment of making a good app. And the world is a better place for it.
brian

This benevolence, of course, is not exclusive to the open source community.
The closed-source windows freeware apps, are many, and often excellent,
and developed by warm and fuzzy coders

[ZenPunkHippy]

You imply you don't know what a package manager is, yet state you can
install/admin a linux system...this makes me think it's been
many many years since you gained that ability, and you're
out of the loop now

FWIW at the time of writing my comment there were 5 separate terminal windows open connected to 3 different Linux servers and 1 Mac.

or you're just having a lark here, in your spare time.

The point is that Linux users are quite fond of dropping in to "Linux-speak", but musicians (including me in "music mode") are just not interested in that. Most musician outside of plugin / tech oriented sites like KVR are only interested in minimum configuration drag n drop / plug-n-play solutions.

A modern linux distro, preconfigured for audio, of which there are many,
will even do well running Alchemy. Is that 'there' enough for you?

I've used Alchemy on Linux, but not for some time. Care to name the distro?

Unfortunately, there do not appear to be any drivers for the 3 different (but popular and well known) audio cards I have installed in my PCs / Macs ... so that's not going to help.

Peace,
Andy.

[glokraw]

Which is easier: to search on the web for the installer, then double click next,next....or to run the sofware center(in ubuntu) search the program and click instal (or just type in the terminal "sudo apt-get install program" /in Ubuntu/ or "sudo pacmans -S program" /in Arch Linux/ )

You're not getting it ... you're looking at it from the point of view of an experienced user.

Most musicians are not (and are not interested in being) experienced computer users.

edit: Have you even installed and used an audio specialty linux since 2010?
I doubt you ever would need to, as part of your work at Camel
I can't name a single musician, who is not also a computer user,
since modern cellphones are more powerful computers than most
of the aged systems/memories that linux detractors are using as the basis
of their argument here.

Ordinary people seem very successful in using their hand-held computers,
so I have no doubt, that anyone who has the learning ability and work ethic
to play a music instrument, such that people would listen twice,
also can master the modern linux gui, despite having to endure
the horrors of menu navigation and mouseclicks

[ZenPunkHippy]

edit: Have you even installed and used an audio specialty linux since 2010?

Yes, I installed Ubuntu Studio less that 2 months ago to check it out.

I can't name a single musician, who is not also a computer user,

Perhaps you should meet more musicians, then? Ignoring smart phones, I know plenty that do not use computers, beyond sending the occasional email.

Ordinary people seem very successful in using their hand-held computers,

The difference with a smart phone is that it comes pre-configured and "just works". All that jail breaking or rooting of Android devices to install custom software is the realm of geeks, not working musicians.

So which Linux distro should I check out now, for full out of the box VST support?

Peace,
Andy.

[glokraw]

You imply you don't know what a package manager is, yet state you can
install/admin a linux system...this makes me think it's been
many many years since you gained that ability, and you're
out of the loop now

FWIW at the time of writing my comment there were 5 separate terminal windows open connected to 3 different Linux servers and 1 Mac.

or you're just having a lark here, in your spare time.

The point is that Linux users are quite fond of dropping in to "Linux-speak", but musicians (including me in "music mode") are just not interested in that. Most musician outside of plugin / tech oriented sites like KVR are only interested in minimum configuration drag n drop / plug-n-play solutions.

A modern linux distro, preconfigured for audio, of which there are many,
will even do well running Alchemy. Is that 'there' enough for you?

I've used Alchemy on Linux, but not for some time. Care to name the distro?

Unfortunately, there do not appear to be any drivers for the 3 different (but popular and well known) audio cards I have installed in my PCs / Macs ... so that's not going to help.

Peace,
Andy.

That info is worth a lot, but without recent experience in using
a dedicated linux audio distro, such admin/web duties are in a different
category. I mainly use puppy studio 1337, and pclinuxos, and bodhi with E19,
maudio 24/96 pci soundcard, nvidia graphics card, pretty cheap secondhand.
The Delta1010's also work, they use the snd_ice1712 kernel module,
which is standard for ages.

You are right about 'linux-speak', and sometimes added from bright people
to whom english is a second/third language. But there is also windows-mac-speak,
all unicorns and ferrie-dust, which typically ignores the many issues musicians face,
that make up a lot of the forum content here.

And to be clear, I'm not advocating anyone switch, I just want to depict
the current situation clearly, as lots of people got burned, years ago.

Any chance you worked on the Peavey Musebox? Such a device with the
full Camel collection inside, would be hard to pass up
Cheers

[ghettosynth]

Really? So you don't have a smart phone, because it's hard to use...

Linux, and specifically music apps on Linux, is not "smartphone easy", is it? Really ... you can't be that blind to the Linux cause to think that setting up a Linux based system is as easy as using an iPhone or Android variant, can you?

First you said: to install a program isn't easy. But in windows you also have to configure a program, and nowadays in linux is almost as simple as in windows. Try ubuntu studio(you don't have to install) for example and you will see it.

Again, you guys are missing something completely. What is the motivation to burn a disc and boot into it for MOST people? You're talking about people that never change their system unless they have to and you want them to waste time downloading and burning a disc just to see that the OS that doesn't support almost all of their existing hardware and software without a lot of hassle? Oh, but no problem installing the ugliest DAW known to man without hassle.

I agree that linux apps are not that hard to install these days. Further, I love package management and repositories and I would like to see that model on windows/OSX in a useful fashion. (yes, I know about ports/fink etc., that's not what I mean) When people tell you that linux is not yet ready for serious audio work, they don't mean that it won't work for some people, or that you can't find exceptions to most concerns. They mean that in a general sense, there is still a lot more work to do before it will appear on their radar as an alternative.

Like I've said, I use Linux EVERY DAY. The most powerful machine in my studio/home office runs linux. It is connected to my studio monitors. I could do ITB production on it RIGHT NOW if I wanted to. For me, there would really only be one motivation to do so, and that's because I could use my most powerful machine for music. For most people, that's not a concern, hence, not a motivation. That motivation isn't enough for ME to switch and my linux-legit score is almost certainly in the high 90s. Now, if you can't convince me that linux is worth "trying", what makes you believe that you can convince people with zero motivation to do so and far less experience with linux/unix, when you haven't presented any compelling reason that matters to them?

[glokraw]

Like I've said, I use Linux EVERY DAY.

Why not make a true effort, just something simple, make a
nice percussion track with hydrogen, a layered keyboard part
with yoshimi, using the Folderal presets, play a nice guitar lead thru Guitarix,
and use rakarrack for fx on each track. Record them at 24bit with
timemachine, mix and render them in audacity, then report
back how insanely difficult it is.

[C-note]

Absolutely nothing could get me to switch to Linux

[glokraw]

So which Linux distro should I check out now, for full out of the box VST support?

Peace,
Andy.

When you obtain supported hardware, Puppy Studio 1337 has wine preconfigured,
RT kernel, loads in ram for speed, and is ready to install Reaper,
and then create a standard Steinberg/VstPlugins folder in Program Files, and
put some favorite plugins there, and point reaper to scan it.

At first shutdown, puppy will ask if you want to create a sqashfs to save your settings,
on the drive of your choice. This file can be enlarged in 512 meg increments,
as more size is desired. It's very portable.

http://puppylinuxstuff.meownplanet.net/ ... ppyStudio/

[ghettosynth]

Like I've said, I use Linux EVERY DAY.

Why not make a true effort, just something simple, make a
nice percussion track with hydrogen, a layered keyboard part
with yoshimi, using the Folderal presets, play a nice guitar lead thru Guitarix,
and use rakarrack for fx on each track. Record them at 24bit with
timemachine, mix and render them in audacity, then report
back how insanely difficult it is.

What is the value TO ME of wasting my time with that? I'm not asking you as if I'm seeking answer, I'm challenging you to think about creating arguments that others find compelling.

What is compelling about hydrogen that I want to give up my current beat making tools? I don't just try different workflows just because I can, that's a waste of time. Near as I can tell, it's a drum machine, so f**king what? I have cubase's beat designer and ableton live with push, as well as more than a few plugins for designing beats. What's MY motivation to learn something else?

What is my obligation to make a "true effort." That has no benefit for me, none whatsoever. So, the answer to your question "why not", is rather simple, "because it's a waste of my time."

[ras.s]

Do you really go forward in your musical efforts always trying to measure the value or benefit of the act beforehand? You don't experiment or allow any accidents to occur at all? You don't improvise or "get out of the box"?

What do you do, music for money -- and only for money?


This whole discussion is like dissing the TB-303 when it came out (not that I was there).

[Hink]

a lot of money is made off of my music and I am not afraid to admit it...software, guitars, amps, computers, pedals, fx, synths, cables...you bet a lot of money is made off of my music...just not by me

[ZenPunkHippy]

a lot of money is made off of my music and I am not afraid to admit it...software, guitars, amps, computers, pedals, fx, synths, cables...you bet a lot of money is made off of my music...just not by me