KVR Audio

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:09 am

I like the look of the knobs and controls. I love the retro feel, they are very nice graphics. The sideways tilt is just horrible though. It actually looks like the metal is bent. It's disconcerting to look at, similar to those perspective drawings that don't make sense, like where stairs go down continuously but loop around on themselves. And labels getting covered up isn't so nice. I just want to grab it and straighten it! I hope if/when you update the GUI of this and Poly-ana that it still has the cool knob/switch design, but just with a straight on look.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:18 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:I like the look of the knobs and controls. I love the retro feel, they are very nice graphics. The sideways tilt is just horrible though. It actually looks like the metal is bent. It's disconcerting to look at, similar to those perspective drawings that don't make sense, like where stairs go down continuously but loop around on themselves. And labels getting covered up isn't so nice. I just want to grab it and straighten it! I hope if/when you update the GUI of this and Poly-ana that it still has the cool knob/switch design, but just with a straight on look.

Funny, I have a real rack right to the side of me here with my audio interface and mic preamp on it, and it's not making me want to put it at 90 degrees to my eyes.

The perspective is true, straight out of the 3D software. (There's a bit of fudging in that the knobs are the same size on both the "near" and the "far" side of the graphic, but that's intentional to save file space on graphics, and is why it's rendered through a relatively telephoto "lens", to minimize the perspective difference while still allowing for the non-straight angle. It's certainly not "bent" though. I'm not sure where you guys are getting that.

Anyway, the knobs are just circles, no matter what they look like.

This was the progression, originally.

My first VST, December 2005, Naive LPF:

April 2006, first commercial product, SCAMP:

Oct 2006, first Poly-Ana Beta:

Nobody complained about the perspective thing until Poly-Ana. And even then, it's only *some* people. I seem to have found something that drives some people nuts, and doesn't bother others at all.

Anyway, yes, you've been heard. As impossibly fake as othographic looks, I'll never be doing a non-orthographic projection again. You will get your imaginary and impossible perspective from infinity, next time I do new graphics for any product.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:20 am

How does this make you feel, by the way? Should I just have made a few more versions of the knobs to suit different positions on the panel, as Arturia did here?

?

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:45 am

AdmiralQuality wrote:How does this make you feel, by the way?

Well it doesn't give me Vertigo..............

But seriously in comparison, Poly Ana's backwards tilt makes much more sense than the "tilting to the right, bent metal" perspective of SCAMP........

It's hard to find the right word but as was mentioned before disconcerting fits pretty well. I guess people are effected differently by different visual cues which explains why some people complain and others are fine with it.........

Kevin Deas · Post by **Kevin Deas** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:54 am

AdmiralQuality wrote:SCAMP was our very first commercial product, from 2006. It's meant to look like a "boutique" effect, designed and built in someone's garage with minimal industrial design. (There are even paint drips on it, as well as my fingerprint from where I touched it before the paint was dry.) Sorry, but that's what it looks like! Kind of like it sounds, dirty, unrefined and mercenary.

I like it, myself. I will never understand people rejecting a plug-in over its looks. If you hate it that much, turn the interface off and use the host's sliders.

If looks don't matter why do you waste time with "paint drips and fingerprints" ?

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:55 am

As a sort of test have you ever seen anyone ask any developer to make their plugin GUIs tilt backwards or sideways ? I haven't in the nearly 14 years I've been here. That sort of gives an idea of what the market taste is......

I'm not in the market for a Filter plugin so I'm not a customer for SCAMP but I will say that while the GUI wouldn't prevent me from buying it the GUI doesn't make me want to buy it.........I'm sure others will disagree........

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:58 am

Kevin Deas wrote: If looks don't matter why do you waste time with "paint drips and fingerprints" ?

The Admiral has always been passionate about his GUIs and despite the regular complaints he receives he has always stuck to his vision. I admire and respect him for that.......I don't agree with his taste in GUIs but I do respect his passion.........

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:04 am

Kevin Deas wrote:
AdmiralQuality wrote:SCAMP was our very first commercial product, from 2006. It's meant to look like a "boutique" effect, designed and built in someone's garage with minimal industrial design. (There are even paint drips on it, as well as my fingerprint from where I touched it before the paint was dry.) Sorry, but that's what it looks like! Kind of like it sounds, dirty, unrefined and mercenary.

I like it, myself. I will never understand people rejecting a plug-in over its looks. If you hate it that much, turn the interface off and use the host's sliders.
If looks don't matter why do you waste time with "paint drips and fingerprints" ?

I never said "looks don't matter". And I explained exactly what you ask that in the quote you just quoted. It looks like the kind of real life thing it's meant to evoke. Again, it's not about slick, mass produced industrial design. It's about under-the-radar, boutique, guerrilla production in a garage. That's the sound I went for, so that's what I wanted it to look like. Raw and unrefined.

If you want shiny chrome, there's no shortage of other products out there depicting exactly that. Sorry, but I can't please everybody. (Indeed, I don't make a product unless I understand and can relate to its niche market. My target demographic is people like myself, and THIS is what gets me hot!)

Kevin Deas · Post by **Kevin Deas** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:05 am

Teksonik wrote:
Kevin Deas wrote: If looks don't matter why do you waste time with "paint drips and fingerprints" ?
The Admiral has always been passionate about his GUIs and despite the regular complaints he receives he has always stuck to his vision. I admire and respect him for that.......I don't agree with his taste in GUIs but I do respect his passion.........

The same could be said about any dictator!

Kevin Deas · Post by **Kevin Deas** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:12 am

Function and performance is what interests me. A GUI is a façade. Nice but not necessary.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:22 am

Kevin Deas wrote:
Teksonik wrote:
Kevin Deas wrote: If looks don't matter why do you waste time with "paint drips and fingerprints" ?
The Admiral has always been passionate about his GUIs and despite the regular complaints he receives he has always stuck to his vision. I admire and respect him for that.......I don't agree with his taste in GUIs but I do respect his passion.........
The same could be said about any dictator!

Nobody forces you to use this. If you don't like it, you can just move on to another thread.

While I appreciate the bumps regardless of topic, I do hope this thread doesn't immediately degrade into another GUI battle like the Poly-Ana threads do. I get a LOT of compliments about the GUIs actually, but unfortunately most of those come in emails rather than on the boards, so the boards enhance and amplify dissent to make it seem more universal than it actually is.

But I have heard you. Again, next time I'm doing new GUI work I'll give up the perspective thing and go for an orthogonal projection. But this is just a minor update to an existing product. (The only new functional features added were the program selection and edit/display, the new authorization system, and 64 bit audio processing. Aside from that the 1.3 update is just to support the new x64 and AU platforms.) If/when SCAMP 2.x comes out, it'll look entirely different.

P.S. Any actual bugs??? This is a Beta test thread!

A friend of mine reported a possible instability in Reaper x64 on Windows after running for some time, and I may have had this happen myself (though at the time I blamed it on an almost full system drive which was causing a lot of things to crash). Keep your eye out for this and let me know if it happens to you, and if so, what you need to do to reproduce it. This is what the Beta period is for, to get every functional issue worked out while it still has most of my attention.

Thanks all!

javahut · Post by **javahut** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:40 am

The GUI looks great!.. and actually makes me want to buy it. Even though I have so many filter plugins already I can't remember 'em all.

So please, change the interface so it looks like any combination of the others I already have, so I don't buy this one, too!

Love the GUI. Probably won't be able to keep from buying, now that it's x64.

nix808 · Post by **nix808** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:50 am

I also find AQ GUIs exceptionally pleasing.
Thinking about getting this and Logic tonight,
it sounds like I can run it on 2 systems
Pity that the straight-on perspective will be in future,
but the people have spoken

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:05 pm

nix808 wrote:I also find AQ GUIs exceptionally pleasing.
Pity that the straight-on perspective will be in future,
but the people have spoken

To clarify I like the GUI as far as the background, knobs, switches, etc go but it's the unnatural sideways tilt that my eyes at least find uncomfortable. You'll notice that almost no other developer uses this perspective. ( to be honest I can't really think of even one at the moment).

Out of curiosity what you do find appealing about the non-straight on perspective ?

Echoes in the Attic · Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:08 pm

AdmiralQuality wrote:How does this make you feel, by the way? Should I just have made a few more versions of the knobs to suit different positions on the panel, as Arturia did here?

?

I think this one is a nice GUI. The slight tilt of the knobs isn't bad at all. No labels are covered up and there's no angle to the overall panels, so it's nice. A little bit of stylistic 3D is nice like this when it doesn't affect the overall layout. A super realistic 3D look is not good, it serves no purpose. Making panels angled can only make things harder to see or at worst actually covering up labels like in Poly-ana. Though I prefer Poly-Ana to scamp because at least it's symmetrical rather than looking at it from one side.

You can see another example of where a developer toned down the 3D look with Tone2 ElectraX. The first GUI had very angled knobs and many people didn't love it:

The second GUI in the first update had a much more subtle 3D look without super angled knobs:

SCAMP 1.31 Released, adding OSX VST, AU and x64 support & new key-file auth system. 25% off sale!