PHYSICALLY MODELLED emulations of electric guitars and acoustic/electric basses

[kbaccki]

Ok. Either I let you directly renegociate my contract with the producers (and of course you know what will be the result), either you cease to talk us about samples!!! Is it clear?

You make us shit with your samples!!!

Stop using "realistic" and "synthesized" in the same thread and we'll be on the same page.

Stop to pollute this thread! Go away! I've been constraint to alert the administrators of your troll which are in total non-respect with the requirements of my producers! If you have nothing to do here other than trolling by assertions totally off topic, go away!

Enjoy your search for the elusive. Don't hurt your brain.

[BlackWinny]

I use Image Line Sukura, and would recommend it, of course it is good for other stringed instrument sounds as well, you can get an accurate Sitar sound from it also.

Yes, and precisely, it is for that kind of ethnic plucked string instruments (sitars, sarod, tampura, guzheng, guqin, pipa, lutes...) that I've planned to buy it in october.

While we are at it and that you use it, can you tell me if it can do emulations (even less good, just in background in mixes) of other kinds of instruments (sort of winds for example)? It's just for information, knowing that its purpose is of course mainly the strings.

I use Image Line Sukura

It's Sakura (さくら), in japanese it is the blossom of the cherry tree.

Sukura (すくら) doesn't mean anything in japanese.

[aMUSEd]

I think that little by little I'm on the path to take on a choice between:

• AAS Chromaphone (I'm not sure if it will be as accurate as Strum Electric)
• AAS Strum Electric GS-1 (with my Strum Acoustic Session in complement)
• Xhun Audio IronAxe

Not AAS String studio? It seems more designed for plucked strings and I prefer it to Strum. Chromaphone is not actually designed for plucked sounds but percussion, but you can get some good ones from it (several are in my bank for it) - here's a jazz growl bass preset I made recently:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/564 ... 20bass.mp3

the main limitation with Chromaphone is the lack of glide, aftertouch and pitchbend support for it (although there are workarounds but not ideal)

[BlackWinny]

I think that little by little I'm on the path to take on a choice between:

• AAS Chromaphone (I'm not sure if it will be as accurate as Strum Electric)
• AAS Strum Electric GS-1 (with my Strum Acoustic Session in complement)
• Xhun Audio IronAxe

Not AAS String studio? It seems more designed for plucked strings and I prefer it to Strum. Chromaphone is not actually designed for plucked sounds but percussion, but you can get some good ones from it (several are in my bank for it) - here's a jazz growl bass preset I made recently:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/564 ... 20bass.mp3

the main limitation with Chromaphone is the lack of glide, aftertouch and pitchbend support for it (although there are workarounds but not ideal)

As I said here...

In fact, my conclusion about SS in general is that I don't need it, even on special. There are other things I'm more interested in, ironically for this thread including Chris Hein Bass, and SS just didn't get my thing going. Will give it some more chances another time before the sale's over, but I felt the same about it last night and this morning, so there you have it.

It funny because I was arrived at the same conclusion. It seems to be the less achieved of all the AAS products. I've heard many things in it which are more "inspired by" rather "emulating" the real instruments. VS-2 sounds much better (more cristaline) than VS-1... but in terms of emulation it hasn't improved anything. When we hear the presets (and even the additional banks made by sound designers) we stay more in the domain of a synth than in the domain of emulation of real plucked or bowed string instruments.

Indeed, for me, String Studio is ruled out. If I choose AAS (and it's not yet chosen at all), I would choose Strum Electric or Strum Acoustic (or even both depending on the song in work).

As I said here... I'm less convinced (concerning the guitars) by String-Studio than by Strum Acoustic and Strum Electric.

But nothing is stated. For the moment it is ruled out (as emulation of guitars and basses, but for some other things I like it, unfortunately not for this project).

I have it and even with the extra banks I have found nothing convincing. But if I find some demos (that I would not have seen) of SS VS-2 really convincing as guitar and bass it may make me come back to consider it as a good candidate, I'm not against it at all.

Simply at the current moment, I feel Strum Acoustic, Strum Electric and IronAxe more matching the sounds that I have in head for this project.

About Chromaphone, yes, I have just seen today the same lacks as you tell, and notably the difficulty to have a glide/pitchbend without some workarounds. And to have no glide/pitchbend in an electric guitar... it's like to have a bicycle without its tyres. You can always use it, it goes... but you loose a lot of the pleasure of the bicycle.

[aMUSEd]

I forgot I also made a bank for Sakura which has a few basses including a bass Koto and a wooden acoustic bass plus some distorted metal basses:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/564 ... Sakura.zip

[aMUSEd]

About Chromaphone, yes, I have just seen today the same lacks as you tell, and notably the difficulty to have a glide/pitchbend without some workarounds. And to have no glide/pitchbend in an electric guitar... it's like to have a bicycle without its tyres. You can always use it, but you loose a lot of the pleasure of the bicycle.

Yes it's crazy that they have not enabled these after all the time it has been out now. Even for drums you need to be able to bend sounds.

[BlackWinny]

I forgot I also made a bank for Sakura which has a few basses including a bass Koto and a wooden acoustic bass plus some distorted metal basses:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/564 ... Sakura.zip

Ohhhh.... That yes, it interests me at the highest point!

Thank you!!!

[BlackWinny]

About Chromaphone, yes, I have just seen today the same lacks as you tell, and notably the difficulty to have a glide/pitchbend without some workarounds. And to have no glide/pitchbend in an electric guitar... it's like to have a bicycle without its tyres. You can always use it, but you loose a lot of the pleasure of the bicycle.

Yes it's crazy that they have not enabled these after all the time it has been out now. Even for drums you need to be able to bend sounds.

Yes. I really can't understand why they have done such an amazing lack in that instrument which for the others aspects is totally astounding!

[Saukar30]

Just a thought to this subject... maybe instead of looking for the perfect synth to get the sounds you need... Maybe try thinking of your host as the synth & the synths as your samples.

For example... If u have FL Studio & use Patcher (which is like a small modular host vst that you can use inside FL Studio in case you don't have it), you could probably load up a couple of different synths with some replying to just note offs & random key presses like you would do in a sampler. That way you're not using any samples however you're using the same idealogy that may be a little closer to your goal.

Thats just my 2 cents in how I would think about it if I were in your position. I wish you luck on the project!!

[BlackWinny]

Just a thought to this subject... maybe instead of looking for the perfect synth to get the sounds you need... Maybe try thinking of your host as the synth & the synths as your samples.

For example... If u have FL Studio & use Patcher (which is like a small modular host vst that you can use inside FL Studio in case you don't have it), you could probably load up a couple of different synths with some replying to just note offs & random key presses like you would do in a sampler. That way you're not using any samples however you're using the same idealogy that may be a little closer to your goal.

Thats just my 2 cents in how I would think about it if I were in your position. I wish you luck on the project!!

It's perhaps late in the middle of the night here in Paris, France... I have not understood your trick!


My host is either Reaper either Mulab.

Patcher? You have a link to it somewhere? I don't know it at all.

And, perhaps due to some lacks in english (I'm french)... I haven't understood the trick.

[Kevin Deas]

Hopefully I am not pointing out a synth that uses samples , I completely understand the circumstances of your contract. Has anyone mentioned Plex v2 ? by Wolfgang Palm. You might like it.

[Saukar30]

It's perhaps late in the middle of the night here in Paris, France... I have not understood your trick!
[img]<span%20class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://jacques.prestreau.pagesperso-ora ... .gif</span>[/img]

My host is either Reaper either Mulab.

Patcher? You have a link to it somewhere? I don't know it at all.

And, perhaps due to some lacks in english (I'm french)... I haven't understood the trick.
[img]<span%20class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://jacques.prestreau.pagesperso-ora ... .gif</span>[/img]

Sure no problem. LOL I understand how those late nights go, and I apologize for writing it incorrectly.

Here is Patcher:
http://www.image-line.com/plugins/Tools/Patcher/

Basically, it's a minihost VST in which you can load up VST synths & Instruments into one instance of Patcher. Think of it as a modular host within a VST.

So basically, what you could do, for example, is...
1. Load up Patcher
2. Inside of Patcher, load a couple instances of your favorite VSTi
3. Pick a preset in one instance that has your main sound. In a different VST, choose a preset for a slide. In another instance of your VST, choose a preset that sounds like a guitar release
4. If your synth is capable, go to your mod matrix and make the VSTs WITHOUT the main sound respond to note off / random note off messages
5. Tweak, tweak, tweak until you have a sound
6. Put a Amp sim or other effect on the output of Patcher (if that's what you need)

That is a very basic example. There are lots of particulars involved. The whole idea those is you would be thinking of how to use the synth in multiple instances versus using just one. This could be done without Patcher of course. I used Patcher as an example because you can visually see how everything is connected. You could use Reaper and have all of your VSTS in one track. You could also route the outputs of the VSTs to different tracks if you want to go crazy with it.

This way you're not limited by the synth. Your only limit would be how to make it gel together to the way that it would work for the sound you need to achieve.

[BlackWinny]

Hopefully I am not pointing out a synth that uses samples , I completely understand the circumstances of your contract. Has anyone mentioned Plex v2 ? by Wolfgang Palm. You might like it.

Hello Kevin!

You talk about this synth?
No, you're right, neither myself nor anybody else have thought to this one. And although... I have played around with it when it was out last year. And since that time... I have completely forgotten it, my bad, because I was on another way at this time!

You're totally right, I should give it a try and perhaps put it in the balance!

[drunken jesus]

I hope I'll be allowed to publish some tunes.
...
Yes, but for the effects I have already a good bunch in Amplitube, and also some very good free effects that I use for a long time, all the collection Modern Plugins from Antress, and a good bunch from Blue Cat Audio and from Voxengo. So I think that if the embedded effects of AAS are a bit disappointing I have there some good solutions to overcome the problem.

Well if you can't publish the tunes yourself maybe you could just link one of the documentaries you've scored once their done I'm sure many here are interested in science(I'd definitely watch if they're in english) & You're well set then amplitube is a great plugin

So I imagine that some little flaws sometimes can be tolerated here that could not be tolerated of course in a "standard" situation. But I (and the other four) want to do as well as possible of course, in the aim to keep these tunes for perhaps another user later for my own.

Totally agree with your analysis the style of music you're making doesn't usually rely on intricate solos anyway, I just mentioned it as a reference to others who may view as I've tried to do solo's with PM and sampled guitars and it required alot of midi editing and patience to get the results I was looking for

Aaah... that's a very good idea!

When you say PM Organ you think to paraphonic Hammond emulations like GSi VB3, Native Instruments B4, LinPlug Organ 3? As I already own VB3, it can be an idea to use it, either raw either with strange sounds got after some effects...

Yeah VB3's a personal favorite of mine. For the style of music you're making for this it's a natural fit, as you said either raw, ran throw a rotary speaker emu, or with all kindsa effects added as a lead, pad, or rhythmic chord section I'm sure you could find many uses for it and many have pretty much mastered physically modelled hammonds

[BlackWinny]

It's perhaps late in the middle of the night here in Paris, France... I have not understood your trick!
[img]<span%20class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://jacques.prestreau.pagesperso-ora ... .gif</span>[/img]

My host is either Reaper either Mulab.

Patcher? You have a link to it somewhere? I don't know it at all.

And, perhaps due to some lacks in english (I'm french)... I haven't understood the trick.
[img]<span%20class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://jacques.prestreau.pagesperso-ora ... .gif</span>[/img]

Sure no problem. LOL I understand how those late nights go, and I apologize for writing it incorrectly.

Here is Patcher:
http://www.image-line.com/plugins/Tools/Patcher/

Basically, it's a minihost VST in which you can load up VST synths & Instruments into one instance of Patcher. Think of it as a modular host within a VST.

So basically, what you could do, for example, is...
1. Load up Patcher
2. Inside of Patcher, load a couple instances of your favorite VSTi
3. Pick a preset in one instance that has your main sound. In a different VST, choose a preset for a slide. In another instance of your VST, choose a preset that sounds like a guitar release
4. If your synth is capable, go to your mod matrix and make the VSTs WITHOUT the main sound respond to note off / random note off messages
5. Tweak, tweak, tweak until you have a sound
6. Put a Amp sim or other effect on the output of Patcher (if that's what you need)

That is a very basic example. There are lots of particulars involved. The whole idea those is you would be thinking of how to use the synth in multiple instances versus using just one. This could be done without Patcher of course. I used Patcher as an example because you can visually see how everything is connected. You could use Reaper and have all of your VSTS in one track. You could also route the outputs of the VSTs to different tracks if you want to go crazy with it.

This way you're not limited by the synth. Your only limit would be how to make it gel together to the way that it would work for the sound you need to achieve.

Ahhh... Ok, ok, ok... Interesting. Isn't it something a bit equivalent to MUX (from Mutools) which is not only a synth but also a whole environment working like a network where you can interconnect dozens of modules, each of these modules being as you want a VST synth, a VST effect, a control, a knob/slider from its library, etc. and even with the ability to build your own GUI?
Here is an excellent demo:


MUX is provided with my Mulab (it can also be bought separately for 50 euros). It contains itself a good hundred of controls to make oneself one's synths and can use all the VST's that you want as if they were internal modules... and must of the must... it can drag-drop an element (button, knob, slider, etc) of the GUI of a synth to create your own panel mixing all the elements that you want in a unique GUI as if you had created a unique synth with the synths used in the patch!

I use a lot this function of Mulab called MUX (also available separately as I said). And I'll use it of course in this project, as usual for me. And precisely it will allow me to totally transform the sound of an electric guitar (emulated by the product I'm looking for) by making many morphings between this "guitar" and a bunch of others synths, all being interconnected in that MUX.

I think by the way that MUX goes further than Patcher (I've just read the page you linked and saw two demos in videos) in the possibilities. You should see it because it works very well also in FL Studio, Reaper, Sonar, etc.

Look also at this demo of the creation of a drum groove with one of the modules (called MuDrum) of MUX (the demo is made with Mulab as DAW but could be made in any other DAW since MuDrum in a part of the VST MUX):