KVR Audio

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:24 pm

I understand that... but in this case... the SAT button shouldn't turn off all saturation modules, but only the preamp don't you think?

Else it's like pretty much every EQ on the market that has an "Analog" or "Saturation" button... Turn it off, and you have a "clean" digital EQ. Turn it on and you have saturation on top of saturation, on top of saturation. Especially if you go a route like:

Tape Sim -> Console Emulation -> Channel Strip Sim -> Console Emulation (sum) -> Tape Sim

That is a bit too much IMO. Even if you properly gain staged, you will loose out on high end frequencies. Unless that is what you desire with your mix.

But I understand and accept your concept.
And this plugin is also still on my "plugins to get" list.

bk · Post by bk » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:29 pm

Compyfox wrote:I understand that... but in this case... the SAT button shouldn't turn off all saturation modules, but only the preamp don't you think?

Else it's like pretty much every EQ on the market that has an "Analog" or "Saturation" button... Turn it off, and you have a "clean" digital EQ. Turn it on and you have saturation on top of saturation, on top of saturation. Especially if you go a route like:

Tape Sim -> Console Emulation -> Channel Strip Sim -> Console Emulation (sum) -> Tape Sim

That is a bit too much IMO. Even if you properly gain staged, you will loose out on high end frequencies. Unless that is what you desire with your mix.

If you're running a signal path like that, I would think the saturation from this EQ (which seems pretty subtle to me) would get completely lost, anyway. With all the saturation you're showing there, why not just turn off the saturation in the EQ? How much saturation do you really need?

I don't understand everyone's insistence on recreating a complete virtual analog path. I've waited for decades to get audio as cleanly recorded as I can today. Most of the time, I don't really want to intentionally screw that up.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:05 pm

This is what I am aiming at. You add too much "coloring" (saturation, or technically: harmonic content) to a signal with that route. And most of the time, you can not take control over it. But in the digital realm, we do have the control, and we should in best case.

This is a very extreme example, but unfortunately also a realistic one. If people can do that with their available CPU power, they will go that route. But totally underestimate the side effects.

In my case, if I go the full "analog type route", I try to stick to one type of saturation only. And that being the console. If I use a "Neve" console simulation, and a Neve console EQ, i don't need several saturation types of the same module in row. Hence my FR with total control.

On the other hand, a concept like TDL/VoS's SlickEQ is really interesting. Since you can use this thing as plain clean "character type EQ", or you can turn on saturation modules to your needs. Either saturation on EQ boost only, EQ sat and output sat, just output sat. Your choice.

Sometimes I wish that console and channel strip emulations would have a bit more control over features. Like I said... I might not need the saturation from the preamp, but I'd love to get the filter saturation if I crank up stuff. We are currently at a turning point in terms of "emulations". We went a long way in the last 10 years. Who knows what will happen within the next 5.

And I say that tools like HoRNet SW34EQ are definitely among the more interesting ones. Not only due to the fact that this was a console that not everyone ports up and down.

EcHo2K · Post by **EcHo2K** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:53 am

Ok you have a point there Compyfox, but I think that manufacturers (and I can add my self to the list for not being clear enough) should explain what is modeled and what is not.

SW34EQ is not an emulation of the complete channelstrip, input and output controls are there for convenience but don't work against a preamp emulation, they are simple digital multipliers. When we decided to emulate that EQ we disassembled a channel of the console and measure ONLY the EQ module thus excluding any interference from preamp or VCA used for automation.

This means that if you want to build a "console feeling" you should put a preamp emulation in front of the EQ, in this case would make completely sense!

Saverio
hornetplugins.com

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:24 pm

Understandable... just giving food for thought here. Especially if we look at the given flow chart.

poshook · Post by **poshook** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:04 pm

just one more idea "this EQ rocks" especially for acoustic music. it sounds absolutely natural. one of the best algo Eqs available

EcHo2K · Post by **EcHo2K** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:50 pm

poshook wrote:just one more idea "this EQ rocks" especially for acoustic music. it sounds absolutely natural. one of the best algo Eqs available

We have to praise th original designers for choosing those curves

Saverio

itneveris · Post by **itneveris** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:58 am

Haha yes, but you have so faithfully recreated them, and that is also a feat of pure awesomeness

Compy, I would recommend the Sonimus SweeTone for a killer Pre-amp with filters and a Tilt function, I always use it before I use the SW34.

But this is after everything goes thru Britson where I do most of the filtering, then frozen tracks, but sometimes if I'm still deciding on the hi-pass, I'll just freeze the track and then use SweeTone as my filter EQ, or if I need a 12db cut which Britson doesnt provide.

So I'll for Britson(gently filters, trim) > SweeTone(optional, but like I said it does have a pre-amp section) > SW34 > MultiComp or whatever compressor is needed, sometimes SuperCharger GT, sometimes a Sknote Compressor.

Then into Britson Buss > Buss Comp > SW34 for bus balancing duties if I need, into the Briton Master > DCam FreeComp > SW34 again for sweetening.

EcHo2K · Post by **EcHo2K** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:20 am

itneveris wrote:Haha yes, but you have so faithfully recreated them, and that is also a feat of pure awesomeness

Thank you very much

it's a pleasure.

Is there any particular preamp people really like that is not on of the usual NEVE suspects? We can try to model that too! Honestly the preamp on the Otari board is nothing to write home about...

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:34 am

Why not?
I consider Otari as a rare board, people from API helped creating it.

I know people that say that the DDA QMR mixing console wasn't something to write home about, but overdriven on purpose this console sounds actually great. I still want one in software form (much like I want a TL Audio M4 Tube Console in software form - and by that, I don't mean Nebula, or a Neumann one).

We have too many NEVE's and SSL's IMO. If we go that route, we need diversity. And if you'd model the Otari Soundworkshop's preamp and the summing bus, we have a new tool on the block for that purpose.

itneveris wrote:Compy, I would recommend the Sonimus SweeTone for a killer Pre-amp with filters and a Tilt function, I always use it before I use the SW34.

Isn't Sweetone a mix of Sonimus' console "concepts" with a Tonelux Tilt?
If it's working for you, it's cool.

But I'd like to get an actual console ported - if the possibility is existing, why not?

itneveris · Post by **itneveris** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:29 pm

Compyfox wrote:Why not?
I consider Otari as a rare board, people from API helped creating it.
itneveris wrote:Compy, I would recommend the Sonimus SweeTone for a killer Pre-amp with filters and a Tilt function, I always use it before I use the SW34.
Isn't Sweetone a mix of Sonimus' console "concepts" with a Tonelux Tilt?
If it's working for you, it's cool.

But I'd like to get an actual console ported - if the possibility is existing, why not?

It's slightly inspired by the ToneLux and some other tilt EQ so it doesnt 'emulate' a tonelux. Also, a lot of what was learned from building Satson went into it, but I wouldn't really say it's a 'mix of console concepts' and tilt. Just a cool track balancing EQ/filter/preamp. Console duties are Satson and Britson.

As for a modeled preamps, the Otati could be cool, or even a lesser known SSL board that hasnt been emulated. There are SSL 4/9k emulations for days

Cintronic · Post by **Cintronic** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:32 pm

Compyfox wrote: But I'd like to get an actual console ported - if the possibility is existing, why not?

Isn't that Harrison "Mixbuss"

DubLifeSD · Post by **DubLifeSD** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:56 pm

I've been using the SW34EQ more than any other eq in my collection as of late. Superb. I'd love to see a modeled compressor.

itneveris · Post by **itneveris** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:24 pm

DubLifeSD wrote:I've been using the SW34EQ more than any other eq in my collection as of late. Superb. I'd love to see a modeled compressor.

Try his MultiComp, it's my go to and models the 3 classic FET, Opto and VCA styles

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:37 pm

Cintronic wrote:
Compyfox wrote: But I'd like to get an actual console ported - if the possibility is existing, why not?
Isn't that Harrison "Mixbuss"

Harrison Mixbus is a Host with "hardcoded" console type plugins (EQ, preamp, etc).

I was more thinking of systems like Satson/Britson, VCC, NLS, SATV and what have you. A two-plugin system where we have a preamp, and one with the device that does "summing" (saturation, crosstalk, etc).

The OTARI is a rare board (IMO), just like NEUMANN consoles. We're swamped with NEVE and SSL, so I'd love to see something different for a change. ADT, Neumann, DDA, Otari, TL Audio, Toft (and by that I mean the "new" Toft console's not the Trident), etc... bring it on.

HoRNet SW34EQ analog modeled equalizer