formulaic, (un)original, and other shallow words..

[peejunk]

When reading music related discussions, terms like originality (more like "unoriginal", actually) and formulaic often pop up, especially when slating dance or slightly more popular music (yes, it has to do with recent trance flames, but also some other flames on other discussion groups that I participate in).

I suppose, with dance music, it often has to do with people not understanding how the dance scene works. Most dance music is published only on 12" and, more or less, as a DJ tool. Therefore it's "formulaic" due simply to the narrow purpose it has -- to be mixed by a DJ and allow seamless flow from other tracks by other authors within the genre.

Under these preset circumstances it's a real challenge to sound different and interesting, while still remaining within the form, yet some authors are being really good at it. You can see this clearly if you compare dance LPs with authors' 12" work. On LPs you'll usually find a broad spectre of genres and production styles combined, and much more musically exciting and braver music, with only a couple of tracks being 12"-friendly.

Another thing is, dance music has reinvented itself about 50 times in last 15 years, rock music was pretty much sounding the same during decade-long periods. Hower you almost never hear about 70s white euro rock and it's loudest 80s successor -- heavy metal, being slated as unoriginal and formulaic, unless you're masochistically after a verbally violent backclash from the followers (well, at least here where I live).

Finally, all music IS and always will be inevitably formulaic (just think about hundreds of years of classical music). On the other hand, beleiving in such things as absolute originality in any artform is about as naive as one can get (frankly, i think existance of Santa Claus ha better fidelity).

So really, I don't get it, you slate genres you dislike with words that sound nasty and derrogating, but are, if we are REALLY honest to ourselves, something that easily fits the music in general. Sure, one into some sort of music will hear minute differences, movements and artistic achievements within the genre, while outsiders will measure the music with merits that are relevant to what they are into, and it will all sound the same to them.

It's kinda like, well, we all know that Chinese people all look the same, right? I mean, they're all the same aren't they?

[CypherOne]

thanks for that.

[Stupid American Pig]

My favorite word to describe music- edgy. especially in the context of radio friendly music of any genre. That is the most ridiculous way to describe music ever.

I agree with most of what you said there PJ. I think that those words(formulaic, unoriginal) could be used to describe anyone who no longer wants to explore boundries and become "better" at what they do, or focus on the art of what they are doing, or are trying to sound like last summers big smash. basically if you are making records to keep your record company happy then I think that they are fair assesments.

However, every musician has a "sound" to them, and some fit very nicely in one genre. That being said, in any genre theres at least one artist who can make it interesting and worthwhile, but they are few and far between...

[whyterabbyt]

So what's the best adjective to describe the unoriginal, formulaic stuff then?

[Sicklecell666]

And what is it you have against Chinese ppl?

[peejunk]

And what is it you have against Chinese ppl?

I hope you're just joking with me here.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Shit, can we reopen "that" trance thread. I was wrong, so very wrong, but now I know what I should have been thinking and I would like to refute all my comments

[CypherOne]

So what's the best adjective to describe the unoriginal, formulaic stuff then?

bland
done to death
all too familiar
music by numbers
shite
trance (oh oh here we go again).

not all adjectives I know...

[Wopelka]

Finally, all music IS and always will be inevitably formulaic (just think about hundreds of years of classical music).

could you please enlighten me about this? did you mean "hundreds of years of classical music" are a good example of what is formulaic music?


maybe i don't understand what is meant by formulaic

[peejunk]

Shit, can we reopen "that" trance thread. I was wrong, so very wrong, but now I know what I should have been thinking and I would like to refute all my comments

If I recall correctly, you were mustly wrong for using some kiddies dumb questions as an argument.

[Sicklecell666]

And what is it you have against Chinese ppl?

I hope you're just joking with me here.

Gee..that makes two of us.

[vurt]

i think the opening post in this here thread is formulaic and unoriginal









and i even like trance,just not formulaic and unoriginal stuff

[VariKusBrainZ]

Shit, can we reopen "that" trance thread. I was wrong, so very wrong, but now I know what I should have been thinking and I would like to refute all my comments

If I recall correctly, you were mustly wrong for using some kiddies dumb questions as an argument.

Ah, so you are of the same opinion of that "some kiddie" and that I should have kept my f**king mouth shut, I think thats what he said. I will not shut up unless its going to get me imprisoned, ejected from the country, banned from the forum or because its made someone cry which is the biggest crime a human can perpetrate, besides truly believing that trance IS NOT formulaic.

Oh sorry, forgot we´re s´posed to be mature adults and everyone knows that theyre not allowed to have a bit of fun, which I must say this is

[peejunk]

maybe i don't understand what is meant by formulaic

Put it like that and I came out a stupid, uneducated barbaric little kiddie, right?

But, stuff like initial baning the use of tritone, all those compositional forms and rules that were taught used and reused, very slow propagation of new ideas -- all these helped in the fact that even among the greatest of music of that time, there are a lot of formulae.

Just, unlike most of you unrealistic people living in some childish ideals of originality and invention, I still can both think like that AND appreciate (even love) it for being art and creation, someones intimacy and soul embedded in work of art. And have respect even for the formulaic bits.

Even the best classical works have at leat 40% of obviuos time-filler music in it, nicely placed between examples of artistic briliance. This "filler" parts often are just some witty use of existing rules and practices.

You tell me that rules of series counterpoint, functional harmony and all those other classical practices (like motive mutations, sonata, recital and other structures etc.) are not exactly that - formulae.

Another thing, keep in mind that what we now mostly hear are The Masters, the creme de la creme of these periods. What about all that long forgotten mediocrity?

If you (and by that signature praising one of IMHO worst concepts in artistic music i can presume so) are formaly trained you will be more aware of all the snobbery and "embedding ones ideas into students" that is always present in formal musical education, than I who only have a lot of musically educated friends am. That shite often produces replicas of the elders (and rarely total antipods -- for every progress ever made we are mostly to be thankfull to the occasional rebel).

Oh yes, serialist matrices are nothing but formulae either. Kind of specialized combinatorics formulae we learn here in final years of highschool.

So, I may be uneducated, uninformend or just plain wrong, but it's how I've come to see it from what I've heard and learned from the music and the subject.

[peejunk]

Ah, so you are of the same opinion of that "some kiddie" and that I should have kept my f**king mouth shut

You lost me here.

All I said is by qouting someone asking about some quick cookbook formula to make anything doesen't instantly make that something formulaic.

Flames are always fun, they stretch both the conflict and intelect muscles. I love flames, but I prefer them with some proper argumentation on the side.