Reason 8 - Official

[tonkatodd]

Beta testing is rarely a "new feature" phase of product development, so I doubt we'll see any changes from now until release beyond bug fixes. I'm glad to hear that right-click adding of devices is still there. It's also relieving to know arrowing up/down with the keyboard is still viable, even if requires pressing the ENTER key to load it. The old browser is a mixed bag in that respect because you can't actually turn that feature off which can make arrowing through patches, especially combinators, sluggish. A good compromise for R8.1 might be to include some kind of "Autoload" checkbox in the browser to simulate the old behavior. For users who detach the rack to put it on another monitor, they should consider giving it its own browser so the sequencer window can be completely hidden away. I'm curious to know what they've done with the Tool window.

Tool window (F8) is still there.

[Tren]

They should have kept Record and Reason as separate product lines.

Or given the user the option to run in Rack or DAW mode or something that stops the mess that the current product has with invisible mixer patch-ins all over the rack. At V5 you could follow ALL audio movement in virtual cable form from beginning to end at your soundcard, all within the rack. Plus you could repatch anything at any point. Total flexibility. I'd rather do without SSL and have that back!

The SSL mixer console should be an optional patch in, rather than something all instruments automatically go through. Also it should adhere fully to the cable system - the way the cabling from the rack to the mixer works is awful; currently these virtual cables are invisible! The whole thing is just a mess on an HCI level - something this revamped GUI partially acknowledges but doesn't fix at the root component level.

Technically it is optional. Hold Shift when creating an instrument and it won't auto route. No SSL channel will be created, you can then route to the hardware interface if Rewire is what you are after. The routing flexibility is still there with the SSL mixer. Also if the 14:2 mixer is your thing you can still use it thus bypassing the SSL Mixer. Create a 14:2 then create your instruments. They will auto route the 14:2. Maybe I am not understanding you here.

But it's really clumsy the way the old Rack world has to meet the new SSL/Record 1.0 world. The SSL 'window' should have been made optional, not forced. Then the SSL DSP should have also been provided as a rack unit option that provides say 4 channels of SSL emulation inside the rack; and you can stay working entirely in the rack without losing any DSP potential.

They should have made an audio recorder rack unit/ReCycle unit too. Fully synchronised with the transport at all times. That way the workflow stayed the same as Reason 5. Everything in the rack. The Reason way. Not this smudged DAW product Record stomping all over the Reason of the past and forcing you into a weird new workflow which despite the addition of an ever-present browser in R8, still just doesn't feel elegant and right.

I guess I'll just stay on the older versions of Reason, I just think they're more coherent as a product vision and I love that the Rack feels like a real musical instrument. I still feel like they should rewrite Reason from scratch at this point, or re-envisage the whole GUI anyway - not just the browser.

[Tronam]

But it's really clumsy the way the old Rack world has to meet the new SSL/Record 1.0 world. The SSL 'window' should have been made optional, not forced. Then the SSL DSP should have also been provided as a rack unit option that provides say 4 channels of SSL emulation inside the rack; and you can stay working entirely in the rack without losing any DSP potential.

They should have made an audio recorder rack unit/ReCycle unit too. Fully synchronised with the transport at all times. That way the workflow stayed the same as Reason 5. Everything in the rack. The Reason way. Not this smudged DAW product Record stomping all over the Reason of the past and forcing you into a weird new workflow which despite the addition of an ever-present browser in R8, still just doesn't feel elegant and right.

I guess I'll just stay on the older versions of Reason, I just think they're more coherent as a product vision and I love that the Rack feels like a real musical instrument. I still feel like they should rewrite Reason from scratch at this point, or re-envisage the whole GUI anyway - not just the browser.

As was already mentioned you don't have to use the SSL mixer at all. In fact you can even unplug it from the main outs completely, collapse it, hide the window, and save that as your default template. Just don't ever tap F5. A fun side effect of disconnecting the Master Section you may not be aware of is that adding new devices will no longer create SSL mix channels, so there's no need to hold down shift; they'll operate just like classic Reason.

[Tren]

But it's really clumsy the way the old Rack world has to meet the new SSL/Record 1.0 world. The SSL 'window' should have been made optional, not forced. Then the SSL DSP should have also been provided as a rack unit option that provides say 4 channels of SSL emulation inside the rack; and you can stay working entirely in the rack without losing any DSP potential.

They should have made an audio recorder rack unit/ReCycle unit too. Fully synchronised with the transport at all times. That way the workflow stayed the same as Reason 5. Everything in the rack. The Reason way. Not this smudged DAW product Record stomping all over the Reason of the past and forcing you into a weird new workflow which despite the addition of an ever-present browser in R8, still just doesn't feel elegant and right.

I guess I'll just stay on the older versions of Reason, I just think they're more coherent as a product vision and I love that the Rack feels like a real musical instrument. I still feel like they should rewrite Reason from scratch at this point, or re-envisage the whole GUI anyway - not just the browser.

As was already mentioned you don't have to use the SSL mixer at all. In fact you can even unplug it from the main outs completely, collapse it, hide the window, and save that as your default template. Just don't ever tap F5. A fun side effect of disconnecting the Master Section you may not be aware of is that adding new devices will no longer create SSL mix channels, so there's no need to hold down shift; they'll operate just like classic Reason.

That's a good find. What happens with audio tracks if you have the SSL disconnected like this?

[tonkatodd]

But it's really clumsy the way the old Rack world has to meet the new SSL/Record 1.0 world. The SSL 'window' should have been made optional, not forced. Then the SSL DSP should have also been provided as a rack unit option that provides say 4 channels of SSL emulation inside the rack; and you can stay working entirely in the rack without losing any DSP potential.

They should have made an audio recorder rack unit/ReCycle unit too. Fully synchronised with the transport at all times. That way the workflow stayed the same as Reason 5. Everything in the rack. The Reason way. Not this smudged DAW product Record stomping all over the Reason of the past and forcing you into a weird new workflow which despite the addition of an ever-present browser in R8, still just doesn't feel elegant and right.

I guess I'll just stay on the older versions of Reason, I just think they're more coherent as a product vision and I love that the Rack feels like a real musical instrument. I still feel like they should rewrite Reason from scratch at this point, or re-envisage the whole GUI anyway - not just the browser.

As was already mentioned you don't have to use the SSL mixer at all. In fact you can even unplug it from the main outs completely, collapse it, hide the window, and save that as your default template. Just don't ever tap F5. A fun side effect of disconnecting the Master Section you may not be aware of is that adding new devices will no longer create SSL mix channels, so there's no need to hold down shift; they'll operate just like classic Reason.

That's a good find. What happens with audio tracks if you have the SSL disconnected like this?

Interesting question. How did you have audio tracks before the SSL mixer? I'm getting a bit confused with your issues. Are you saying you want Reason pre record but with record features like audio tracks?

[Tronam]

That's a good find. What happens with audio tracks if you have the SSL disconnected like this?

Audio tracks?! Classic Reason needs not such things! But, if you must poison the vintage vibe with such impurities, they'll still appear as thin rack units per usual. They just won't produce any audible sound initially until you connect their Direct Out jacks to your 14:2 or 6:2 mixer. They can absolutely be used this way though, again completely bypassing the SSL mixer. You can even use their Insert FX section.

[kmonkey]

Quite a lot of naysayers here. Put it simply: you really don't have to buy it - plenty of choices

And no, with the latest v8 i am not seeing any kind of paradigm shift inside Reason. It's just same ol' Reason just a bit more advanced..

You want it to be less powerful - no problem create simplistic template and off you go..

[stroker_ace]

Quite a lot of naysayers here. Put it simply: you really don't have to buy it - plenty of choices

Whew! I thought everybody was forced to upgrade to v8. Thanks for setting us straight.

So now that we all know we don't have to buy it, is it still ok to criticize it?

I'll put it even more simply: now that you know there's a lot of naysayers here, you really don't have to come back to this thread.

Either your "logic" is deeply, deeply flawed, your emotions are misplaced, or both.

[kmonkey]

Quite a lot of naysayers here. Put it simply: you really don't have to buy it - plenty of choices

Whew! I thought everybody was forced to upgrade to v8. Thanks for setting us straight.

So now that we all know we don't have to buy it, is it still ok to criticize it?

I'll put it even more simply: now that you know there's a lot of naysayers here, you really don't have to come back to this thread.

Either your "logic" is deeply, deeply flawed, your emotions are misplaced, or both.

Actually no your logic is a bit poor here. No not just poor it's actually useless.

Because you see this is Reason 8 thread. Not Reason 8 rant thread. But i guess you like to what it turned out.

We can call it - weeeeeeeeeeeeeee my reeesnnnn eigght isss nutt what i wannttt...i am soo baadddly angryyyy.... and i weee destroooyyy annnyonee...

Like i said plenty of choices and if you did not realize until now - toilet paper is more worthly to Propellerheads then your uber opinion...I mean literally. You have to be really nut in the shell to think you are going to change anything there. So actually you decided better not to do music and hang with friends or write something useful on forum no you are insulting people.

Nice one..

Another "mute" bites the dust

[trimph1]

Every time someone posts anything pro-reason the haters come out with their Bellyaches.

I have taken to using whaaaambulances a lot lately....sigh

[Tren]

None of *my* remarks are hating on Reason.

It's because I love Reason or perhaps the Propellerhead of old so much that I'm frustrated over the last few years things haven't developed in the direction I was hoping they would. Decisions have been made about how Reason should operate that aren't in keeping with what made me fall in love with it as a unique piece of music making software in the first place.

To me Reason 5 is the last version of Reason, everything since has been Record with new DAW features that have made Reason more and more like the Cubases and Logics of the world. I want a unique and quirky approach to music making, not a DAW.

The old audio Rack + MIDI sequencer concept was amazing ; I wish we could get a new version of the original Reason concept. Maybe as a new product called 'Real' or something: http://www.scrabblefinder.com/starts-with/re/#words The interface being a MIDI sequencer and an audio rack only. It uses just those those two aspects, takes all the official Rack Extensions so far and adds some new innovative ones to allow better use of audio within the Rack environment. Removes in-app purchasing and discontinues the Rack Extensions store. Creates a new modular Effect that within the rack unit allows DSP plugins to be created and shared in an open format by all musicians; like Cycling 74 but done the Reason way. Allows for total live interaction, completely beating Live at its own game, whilst also allowing clever use of MIDI sequencing, audio triggering and total automation. Allows Combinators inside Combinators. And all of this within the original Rack + MIDI sequencer classic setup concept - but both windows can be scaled up to any resolution on a dual screen display by using vector-based graphics for all image components.

That's a real product worthy of the Reason name.
Instead, since 2011, in my eyes Reason has simply become an "also ran".

All IMHO.

[Tronam]

Every time someone posts anything pro-reason the haters come out with their Bellyaches.

I have taken to using whaaaambulances a lot lately....sigh

It's quite alright. I've been using Reason since v1.0 and many of the criticisms are perfectly legitimate. My loyalty to the program is not dictated by general consensus, so I don't mind rolling with the punches in order to also find legitimately constructive discussion along the way.

[festeringheap]

And unlike before, the browser always takes up screenspace! How is that an improvement?

From what I see on the Propellerhead home page, you can fold the browser. However, every screenshot over there shows the 3 thick grey bands of the mixer, rack and sequencer all the time - sucking up valuable screen real estate on a laptop...

[tonkatodd]

I don't have any screen real estate issues on my 1980 x 1020 laptop or my 4K monitor pc but I think anything under 1980 x 1020 these days are going to get a bit cramp. 15" mbp's are something like 2560 x 1600 minimum and most laptops from now on will be higher resolutions including tablets like the Microsoft Surface 3 etc. With my 1980 x 1020 laptop screen I often have problems with PT11 and Reaper at high track counts or any software when having a sequencer and mixer side by side. With Reason 8 I like that with the browser open I get a 2 rack lanes for editing on 1980 x 1020 with the sequencer or mixer open but on the 4k monitor there is no issues and the minimal track style and colours work well with the smaller hi res text.

[kmonkey]

They mentioned that devil is in the details and that there are many other changes made(nut it seems a bit odd that they did not mentioned them on R8 page).

Since some of you have access to beta software can you at least list some of the most notable ones being made. Apart from two new amps, new browser, dragndrop, shiny new gui and doubleclick to add or resize notes what are the most notable changes done there i am really interested?

When i compare clip and midi editing to other software it is insanely utterly counterproductive and slow. Is something new in that department?