KVR Audio

psycho43142 · Post by **psycho43142** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:58 pm

Yeah getting rid of the extra vocals is a mute button to fix, easy. It is also important to understand how the human ear works in regard to the SPL you mix at. Look at the chart in this link to see how the human ears works when comparing frequency perception to SPL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves

I alway mix with an SPL meter to set the monitor level to 80 dB to provide me with the flattest possible perception without doing damage to my ears. I also never work long sessions on one piece. I work 20 - 30 minutes on something, bounce and then burn to CD to listen to out of the studio, usually in my car on my drive to work. That is when I look for things I don't like and want to change.

Also a general understanding of where in the frequency range different instruments fall is necessary. One example in this particular piece is the Kick takes up a lot of bandwidth between 30-100 Hz while the bass parts fundamental is between 60-80 Hz. These two are in constant battle with each other for dominance. My approach was to give the kick an exaggerated attack with compression to define it. I used an EQ with around -5 dB cut on it also at 70 Hz to give the bass a little breathing room. I also side chained a compressor on the bass to the kick to give it space. Some people I believe actually high passed the bass above its fundamental frequency and took the whole bottom end away from it which is ok in the presence of the kick, but not so much when its not there as then the song has no bottom end. There are other ways of dealing with this issue, but this is the way I chose.

mwaudioprod · Post by **mwaudioprod** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:29 pm

Voted!

It was not an easy decision.

Good luck to all!

psycho43142 · Post by **psycho43142** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:34 pm

Here is another great link on using EQ to get instruments to sit with each other in a mix.

Davias · Post by **Davias** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:52 pm

A lot of great and interesting mixes, I'm listening right now and taking notes in order to vote later

Interesting to read about the pumping ^^ I want to say in my track I intentionally pushed the toms very hard into the buss comp, in order to make appear a sucking, kinda of psyched fx i love to hear when I'm raving. Also I decided to make the sidechain pumping on the instruments by slightly sidechainning them with the kick and snare (only the kick for sidechainning the bass and different settings) AND also by pushing the kick a bit into a global compressor (I have several busses and subbusses, one for drums, compressed, one for basses, compressed, one for beat + bass compressed, one for instruments and voice, compressed too, and finally the mix buss where i did ssl compression with slow attack and fast release, the needle was barely moving, but maybe the compressor was acting too much I don't know. Also when the kick kicks in, I'd like to have a little hammering effect that way... maybe I overdid hard to judge here

On another note I like the idea of submitting -> feedback -> resubmitting, the resubmitted tracks could be voted instead of the first ones.

Because I'm sad of my vocals being off beat, I messed it up first time, and they I tried to correct and listened to the soundcloud another day, but I forgot about the extra tracks that could have helped me to get this in sync...

I've noticed Compyfox, that in the statistics pdf you wrote about distortion, is it everywhere or on specific instruments/parts/frequencies ? I can't hear it too well... Thank you for you help.

Hope I will be voting soon

and good luck again to everybody.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:16 pm

The noticeable distortion on your end is due to over driving your tools.
At least that's my impression.

Davias · Post by **Davias** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:23 pm

Thank you for your feedback Compyfox... I can't hear it on my setup (KRKs in a very bad room

then cleaning in a DT880 headphone and finally test on my laptop & smartphone). I was afraid it was in the high end...

I saturated + many compressions on the kick and bass, the rest is without low end (except the toms) so I guess I need to check these two

I should need to test elsewhere...

EDIT : oops I read again your post and I see you're not talking about "low end" but "on my end", maybe I misunderstood.

I use your rule (-18dB VU/+9 peaks/+6 peaks on busses) that I read long time ago somewhere on kvr, and that is gain staged after each effect to avoid overdriving of level-dependent plugins, and also for A/Bing at equal perceived loudness, so I guess I maybe overdid saturation somewhere.

Davias · Post by **Davias** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:28 pm

edit : double post

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:49 am

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

I was just informed by the headmaster, that we have about half of the votes in. So if you're a participant, and didn't vote yet. Please do so.

As of this moment, there are 68 hours left to vote.
(meaning, 2 days and 20 hours)

Please spread the word (i.e. Twitter: #kvrmixchallenge ). This is also the last chance as bystander to win a free license form either Sonivox or UVI.

And if you have a track for a possible future Mix Challenge, please get in touch with us.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:31 am

1 day and 7 hours left to vote.

According to the MC headmaster, only about half of the participants have voted.

satYatunes · Post by **satYatunes** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:19 pm

Voted.

Here is my suggestion after reading last few pages of this thread:
Would it make sense to make this a mastering challenge instead of mixing challenge?
1. No matter how many rules you set, there will always be someone who will break it (knowingly or unknowingly, doesn't matter). The reason could be lack of understanding of technical aspects of the rules, simply just ignoring the rules, etc.
2. It's a competition after all so cannot blame the participants to make their tracks sound nicer by any means. Some may even not aware that they are doing any pre-mastering stuff during the whole process.

If we strictly go by rules then many tracks will be disqualified but then those participants will be demotivated. The main purpose is to learn from these contests.

All please share your thoughts.

photonic · Post by **photonic** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:57 pm

satYatunes wrote:Voted.
... Would it make sense to make this a mastering challenge instead of mixing challenge? ...

From my understanding of a mastering challange, we should all work with the same stereo-mix to master. But whos mix would you use now? Those who premastered allready, used their own mix! So you cannot compare the mastering work.

And as far as I know Compyfox till now, we would get another list of rules how to master (levels ...), what would make sense to me.

satYatunes · Post by **satYatunes** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:08 pm

^^^ Reading back my own post, I realize now that I didn't explain the exact message that I wanted to convey. I should have made it more clear. I am not suggesting to take a stereo track and master it (which would be actual mastering challenge). Nope, that's not what I want. Please disregard my above post. Let me explain my point:

We are debating on statistics and analysis too much. for what? We have made it clear that volume normalization will be done before voting begins and how it can affect a track negatively. Well, Even after knowing the repercussions if someone wants to pre-master their track then what's the big deal. Is it worth fighting over it? Eric mentioned in his previous post that voters are also ignoring pre-mastered tracks. Which is a good thing.

All I am suggesting is to let people mix however they want. We are trying to create a real life scenario as much as we could hence the primary focus should be client's requirement. In this case "Song Provider".

By mastering challenge I meant, eliminate the rule on master track limitations. If one want to use 2-3 limiters on master track, be my guest. I hope I am clear this time.

photonic · Post by **photonic** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:53 pm

Yes, now I got you!

I am also not happy to disqualify people for that reason. But it is good to tell them that they did not follow the rules. Especially when this was their first entry. If they take the competition serious, willing to take it as a change to improve their skills, they will react appropriate, recap the rules and stay in.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:11 pm

It would be best to move this over to the Gossip thread.

Then again, we are currently brainstorming on a new concept for future mix challenges. This is done internally and actually picks up a lot of the criticism, general feedback and what have you. Chances are that this might be put into action for MC04 already, or starting with MC05.

But for the time being, the rules remain the same.
And our suggestions in terms of mix levels and not necessarily opting for tools on the master bus (compressor/limiter) as well.

Your feedback is still appreciated however, but let's stay on topic in here and keep everything else in the Gossip thread.

With that said:
If I'm not mistaken, the LA area (PDT) still has about 10 hours until midnight to 14-09-2014.
If you have not voted yet, please get your vote in.

If you're a bystander and want to have a final chance to grab a free VSTi license, please do so as well.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:24 pm

According to the TimeAndDate Meetup Planner, it's now some time past 2pm in the LA area. That means:

The KVR MC03 voting period has officially ended.
Thanks for your participation.

We try to publish the results in the next days.

In the meantime:

the KVR MC04 is still live (deadline: 21-09-2014 at 11:59pm, 7,5 days left)
for general feedback and questions, please jump over to the Gossip thread
once the voting results are in, the field is open for feedback and posting revisions

KVR MIX CHALLENGE - MC03 August 2014 - Voting period has ended, Winners announced (pg 17)