Studio One 3?

[LawrenceF]

Multi-Out Vsts: I want to route directly to an audio track, not from an instruments aux track to an audio track, I dont want 32 channels in my mixer when im only using 16 (this could be integrated, I just haven't found a way even through google)

If you mean instruments, they do route directly to audio tracks. As to viewing outputs or not, you can turn outputs on/off individually from the [CH] button on every instrument UI. <-- That's an odd bit actually. I see multiple S1 tutorials that open the console to add/remove channels when the list is always right there on the instrument UI...

[tuzemec]

Multi-Out Vsts: I want to route directly to an audio track, not from an instruments aux track to an audio track, I dont want 32 channels in my mixer when im only using 16 (this could be integrated, I just haven't found a way even through google)

If you mean instruments, they do route directly to audio tracks. As to viewing outputs or not, you can turn outputs on/off individually from the [CH] button on every instrument UI. <-- That's an odd bit actually. I see multiple S1 tutorials that open the console to add/remove channels when the list is always right there on the instrument UI...

F**k I feel enlightened now.
I always went for the console

[Guido Negraszus]

Melodyne already existed and has plenty of users. Yes, first DAW to have it implemented but what does it really matter?

I 100% agree on the issue with tracks moving around in arrange and the mixer, though.
This is one of the most annoying things in S1 for me - I could live with the other shortcomings easily.
But this can be so annoying that at some points I do think about using an other DAW for mixing only.
But I really would prefer just using one DAW.

The only workaround is single instances of your multi-VSTi. Actually, I work already for many years now with single instances of Kontakt, Play and Engine because of the S1 "moving tracks" drama. So instead of having 8 instruments loaded into one Kontakt instance I have 8 instances of Kontakt.

I can't get my head around this: on one hand they can integrate Melodyne within the DAW which I presume is an complex exercise but on the other hand they can't implement multi-VSTi, a technology which exists for over 25 years.

[LawrenceF]

I can't get my head around this: on one hand they can integrate Melodyne within the DAW which I presume is an complex exercise but on the other hand they can't implement multi-VSTi, a technology which exists for over 25 years.

The people who invented VSTI do it the same way. It's the Cubase paradigm, and for some odd reason even some Cubase users don't understand it or make the connection. Cubase works exactly the same way.

Below you see 4 midi tracks pointing to 4 Kontakt outputs in the Cubendo mixer. Moving the midi tracks in Arrange does not move the instrument outputs in the mixer. They are, like in S1, completely independent, although in S1 you can "link" arrange tracks to mixer channels in the inspector so that they select and move together.

But Cubase works the exact same way because they also use a "rack" for instruments. I've explained this to people multiple times and they still act like S1 invented that behavior. What they actually did was build the relationships exactly like Cubase, probably since they all came from Steinberg.

Notice how the arrange track selection below is not mirrored in the console...



But in S1 you can link those channels so that they do select and move together, but it only works keeping things in order if you link - all - of them. Notice how the arrange track selection below is mirrored in the console.



So you can keep those in order without using single instances, you just have to make all of the link assignments. I don't think you can do that in Cubase at all, link midi tracks to instrument outputs that way.

In Cubase (at least up to 5.5) the only way to reorder instrument outputs in the mixer is from arrange, a completely separate set of arrange tracks...



I understand why some others coming from other products may find that architecture being different... but I never understand Cubase users complaining about it when what they have is actually much worse... at version 7 (if they haven't changed it yet).

So below, just like in S1, the arrange track only knows it's sending data to the instrument on midi channel 3, it has no way to know which multi-out of that instrument is playing ch 3's audio. It could only know that maybe if the instrument reported that back to the host I guess. Not sure if all "instrument racks" work that way with multi-outs.

And just like S1, renaming a midi track in arrange does not rename the instrument output channel in the mixer. It's just like Cubase... the "king of all daws".



But S1 - using an almost identical rack architecture - gives you a way to manually make those links, to tell the mixer instrument output channels what midi tracks to be directly associated with for selecting and moving. Not a perfect solution, but much better.

And of course, if you print everything to audio all of that goes away at mix time because (like everywhere else) audio tracks always have a 1-to-1 relationship with mixer channels.

Hope that clears some of it up.

[cubanoid]

F**k I feel enlightened now.
I always went for the console

Me too. Studio One has too much workflow, I can't keep up

[LawrenceF]

F**k
I always went for the console

Yeah... I chuckle a little every time I see that in an S1 tutorial. The other similar thing is Control Link, where you often see users travel all the way up to the top left of the screen to get the "A" or "Hand" or whatever when the Control Link window can be accessed on every plugin UI...

[summer2000]

Lawrence, you seem to know quite a bit about S1. Would you happen to know how I can get a track selected from the arrange panel to auto scroll into view in the mixer panel?

Thanks...
Summer2k

[LawrenceF]

There is no auto scroll for the mixer afaik. Double clicking the arrange track is how you'd bring an out of view mixer channel into view in the mixer. When I first got on board back in 1.0 (coming from Cubase) that was one of my first questions / FR's but I've gotten used to it now and hadn't thought much about it until you asked.

Obviously, the Inspector always reflects the mixer channel (when it's open anyway) but yeah, the option to always bring the corresponding mixer channel into view on selection would be handy, agree.

you seem to know quite a bit about S1

I guess. I always learn my main tool fully. I was the same with Cubase... for the parts I used anyway, not the scoring / notation parts though. Same with S1, I don't really use the project page so I'm not so much up to date on it's potential foibles.

But yeah, how could you use something regularly for 3-4 years and not know it well? (rhetorical question)

[summer2000]

Thanks for the quick reply Lawrence.
I seem to have a problem here. When I double click an instrument track, it's not getting selected in the mixer nor shown in view. It only works for out 1-2 in a multi out VSTi but not for any additional outputs I select.

I have link tracks enabled by the way.

[LawrenceF]

Works here when the midi track is linked to an instrument output in the Inspector. The midi track below is linked to Kontakt output 7, double clicking it brings that audio channel into view in the mixer.

The link for that is the "Audio" setting in the Inspector, not the chain link symbol in the track list. "Link" is what I call it, it's probably more technically an "assignment". Those assignments always default to the first output so if you don't assign them manually they'll all be assigned to the first output.

[summer2000]

Thanks for clarifying that. It works now as intended. I was using the chain link option instead of the audio out setting in the inspector. I think I need to review the manual again.

[c_bomb]

Thank you very much for this, LawrenceF.

I might have to take a peek in the manual too. Haha.

[Guido Negraszus]

@LawrenceF: Yes, I do link my tracks and mixer channels but this is not the problem I was talking about. I'm talking about tracks AND / OR mixer channels moving randomly "around" the project. Even if I don't do anything at all. Just going for lunch break, coming back and suddenly one or more tracks are somewhere else. For example, my projects always have the same layout: 4 tracks Stylus RMX (top of arrange) = 4 mixer channels on the left. Next is Omnisphere, again 4 tracks / 4 mixer channels and so on. Now, while I'm working on the song at some stage one of my Stylus RMX channels is now further down in the project in the middle of 8 Kontakt tracks/channels. Or one of my "Play" tracks/ channels is now between my 4 Omnisphere tracks. It's really crazy. I never identified any rules, anything can go anywhere. Now imagine having folder tracks involved, the "fun" only gets better. So this random track moving also ignores the folder where I put them in.

This NEVER happened in Cubase. This can be really problematic when I'm working on a larger Orchestral project (with many tracks) and I can't find my track without doing a "search". Initially I thought it only happened when I added a new output but I was wrong. S1 really does it by itself.

[LawrenceF]

I hear you. That's a separate issue from the one I outlined.

My comments were more related to how to better keep things organized as you move tracks around in arrange, having the console tracks follow, but sure, I have heard complaints about things appearing to move as you describe. I can't say I've personally seen much of that but I have heard about it.

Hope they get that bit sorted out, from what I've read on the forum they appear to be aware of it.

But yeah, my comments were more related to the other things people regularly complain about... like naming an arrange track and expecting the instrument output channel in the mixer to also rename at the same time, or moving a track in arrange and expecting the console channel to follow. The renaming thing is a regular complaint.

And yes, there is some inconsistency there with things that aren't represented in both places, folders, busses, etc, and track order, that they need to sort out. A good 80% of the 'track order' issues are see are related to linking, but as you say, not all. Linking a ton of tracks with multi-outs is a bit of a tedious manual job so lots of people don't don't it, or don't do all of it, and if you don't do them all it can get messy.

[Novalis]

I understand why some others coming from other products may find that architecture being different... but I never understand Cubase users complaining about it when what they have is actually much worse...

Simple answer: because Cubase has something which Studio One does not: real instrument tracks.
A track type where a midi-track is completely linked to a virtual instrument and it's audio output in the mixer.
So all actions done to the midi-track will be reflected in the mixer, and vice versa: re-naming, colouring, deleting, etc.

I can see why instrument tracks got introduced in Cubase (4, I think), because they must have had the same big mess which S1 has with VSTis at the moment.
This solved all of these issues.
If somebody wants to avoid the mess with instrument rack, midi-tracks, audio outs - he can just exclusively use instrument tracks in Cubase.
There is no such thing in S1 (yet - my hope is for version 3 ).

As for "tracks moving around", this can also happen if you have audio tracks only, but use folder tracks. Moving tracks around inside the folder, or even moving them out of it, can quickly create a total mess in S1.