Studio One 3?

[Novalis]

Double-post, sorry.

I always confuse the edit-button with the quote-button

[LawrenceF]

Simple answer: because Cubase has something which Studio One does not: real instrument tracks.
A track type where a midi-track is completely linked to a virtual instrument and it's audio output in the mixer.
So all actions done to the midi-track will be reflected in the mixer, and vice versa: re-naming, colouring, deleting, etc.

Sure. But (until quite recently I guess) Instrument tracks in Cubase didn't do multi-outs so talking about multi-out behavior, comparing it to S1's multi-out behavior, while referencing Cubase's instrument tracks had no real correlation, because those didn't do multi-outs. People using multi-outs were using midi tracks in Cubase, not instrument tracks.

The more accurate comparison there was with Cubase's midi tracks. But I guess Cubase 7 has multi-out instrument tracks now, something new.

I'm not knocking Cubase. Only saying that the midi track + rack architectures there are almost identical and that... for example... you can't compare X architecture to Y architecture (like S1 & Reaper like "Reaper does it, why doesn't S1?) because they're completely different designs. Cubase and S1 are much more alike so I drew those comparisons to show that some of the behavior (as compares to Cubase anyway) is not that unusual.

In other designs, like Reaper, there is always a 1-to-1 relationship because it only has one track class, but if you start splitting multi-outs to different tracks, renaming the "midi track' there which is sending midi to another track where the instrument is doesn't rename those tracks either, because they're different physical tracks, like the instrument pin-out from the rack and the arrange midi track in S1 are different physical tracks.

In other words, while some of the complaints are legit, some of them are simply just not understanding the design, expecting it to behave like a completely different design.

[Novalis]

Sure. But (until quite recently I guess) Instrument tracks in Cubase didn't do multi-outs so talking about multi-out behavior, comparing it to S1's multi-out behavior, while referencing Cubase's instrument tracks had no real correlation, because those didn't do multi-outs. People using multi-outs were using midi tracks in Cubase, not instrument tracks.

Aha, I see what you mean.

My guess is that people just miss the functionality that instruments tracks in Cubase provide, and criticise S1 for that, while confusing that a little bit with the whole multi-out VSTi topic.

I'm coming from Cubase as well, so I really miss this kind of instrument track in S1.
Of course the drawback is (or was) not being able to use multi-outs, but I could live with that easily.
You could always use the "explode pitches to tracks" function, or just use MIDI-tracks with the instrument rack for VSTis where you really needed the multi-outs - and use instrument tracks for every other VSTi.

Since S1 seems to have copied (not meaning this in a negative way) Cubase's way of dealing with VSTis for the most part anyway, why not doing it right and also incorporate "real" instrument tracks?

[Novalis]

Double-post again, I can't believe it

[hibidy]

Get 'R done!!!!!

[LawrenceF]

Since S1 seems to have copied (not meaning this in a negative way) Cubase's way of dealing with VSTis for the most part anyway, why not doing it right and also incorporate "real" instrument tracks?

No idea. Maybe we'll see something like that in the future, no clue.

In fairness, back in 2009 when S1 first released (and the years before that when they were emulating Cubase in some ways when they were building it I guess) the Cubase Instrument Tracks really weren't all that great. They're better now in v7 though, with multi-outs. Props to Steiny for finally getting that done after X years.

Otoh, S1 improved on the Cubase instrument rack from day one. Re-ordering and renaming instrument instances for example... but yeah... the instrument track 'container' is a handy thing.

With S1 I take more of a "glass half full" view but sure, I have a ton of FR's on the table like everyone else.

It's interesting (to me anyway) how developers tend to mostly (or initially) do what they know and/or are accustomed to. See Reaper and it's very high correlation to Vegas in many ways. S1 is kinda like Cubase Part II, so they have a few obvious similarities.

[Guido Negraszus]

Different S1 question. Previously when I was preparing MP3 files (within "Project") the artwork was embedded into my MP3 song. Now it doesn't seem to do that anymore. Whatever I do, when I playback the song via Windows Media Player there is only that default black window. Older songs which I did years ago (with S1) are still showing the artwork. Does anybody know anything about that?

[blueman]

Studio One 4? When?

[hibidy]

Studio One 4? When?

Soon, I'm beta testing it. Main features:

"mind reader" - takes your thoughts and transforms them instantly. The only problem is that it might be something non-musical, then it's all buggered.

"perfect pitch" - this is an upgrade from melodyne. What it does is transform a male vocal to female, or any pitch correction as well. You can also change change vocals to "skrillex" mode which instantly applies professional autotune (but better) fx. Before you drop the bass.......add the skrillex mode to any senseless word combo and you'll sound like a star.

"perfect drums" - with over 10,000 sampled drum parts, you'll be able to get the perfect drum tone. And it has over 3000 midi clips to choose from. Er, but you'll have to audition it one by one. And you'll need to chop up the midi clips to use in different parts....and S1 will still not chop the sections w/o deleting notes...But just tap in some of your internet time, or quit your job.

"sea-sick" - The most bitchen sidechain compressor ever made. Will make tracks that will make you so sick, you'll be barfing sidechain goodness over the whole neighborhood. "sea sick" is the perfect sidechain compressor for when pumpy is not good enough. Make your tracks "sick" with "sea-sick"

But the cpu optimization is not there yet

[Novalis]

S1 is kinda like Cubase Part II, so they have a few obvious similarities.

I also felt like that when I made the transition from Cubase.
Lot of things like in Cubase, just most of them in an improved way.

That of course is a big help for people who switch from Cubase, who can use S1 right away.
When I tested Sonar once, I felt totally lost, and de-installed it after half an hour

Talking of Cubase vs. S1, there is one more odd similarity I noticed very soon:
It would be too much to call it a bug, let's just say it's "strange".
If you do a mixdown in Cubase, and close the program, it asks you if want to save your changes, even if you did not change anything at all, or did a save before the mixdown.
S1 shows exactly the same behaviour , both in the song and the project page.

So both Cubase and S1 regard a mixdown as a change which needs to be saved

@ Guido

Did you upload a pic in the project page?

[egbert]

Doesn't a mixdown end up in the media pool? That new file is a change from the DAWs point of view.

[lfm]

"sea-sick" - The most bitchen sidechain compressor ever made. Will make tracks that will make you so sick, you'll be barfing sidechain goodness over the whole neighborhood. "sea sick" is the perfect sidechain compressor for when pumpy is not good enough. Make your tracks "sick" with "sea-sick"

I think that one already exist - everytime I listen to what's on the radio it makes me sick.

[LawrenceF]

So both Cubase and S1 regard a mixdown as a change which needs to be saved

I think that has more to do with what marks the song file state as being changed, which can be triggered by any number of things, something as simple as opening or closing the browser maybe, because the last visual state is saved in the song file.

But yeah, it does have multiple things in common with Cubase. Bitwig kinda did the same thing with Live, seemed to have intentionally corrected many of the small things people don't like about it out of the gate. S1 1.0 had about... 80-90% ... of my longtime Cubase FR's. I don't think that was an accident, I think either they had the same wants / desires for workflow improvements (maybe being Cubase users themselves) and/or they culled Steinberg.Net for complaints when they were developing it.

I also think (or rather, it seems to be) that the Extension facility in S1 will ultimately prove to be a really handy thing. It goes mostly unnoticed but even at 2.0 a lot of the offline functionality is in the Extensions. I'm curious to know what else might show up there. Of course, with me being a big S1 hacker, if they add a scripting interface as an extension I will be quite happy indeed.

3.0 should be fun, whenever it shows up. I predict KVR will go supernova.

[Guido Negraszus]

S1 is kinda like Cubase Part II, so they have a few obvious similarities.

@ Guido

Did you upload a pic in the project page?

Yes. I didn't change anything in the way I work. I put the artwork in album section (project) and then export MP3s. I don't know when it stopped exporting the artwork. Are you saying it still works for you?

[Novalis]

Doesn't a mixdown end up in the media pool? That new file is a change from the DAWs point of view.

Not necessarily.
You can export a mixdown e.g. to the desktop, and still both Cubase and S1 want you to do a save after that.

S1 1.0 had about... 80-90% ... of my longtime Cubase FR's.

Care to elaborate a bit?
Just curious
I switched when S1 was already at V2.

Are you saying it still works for you?

Yes, I just mastered an album, and it worked fine.
I can't really help there, I'm afraid
(You have v2.6.3 installed?)