Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

[andy-cytomic]

I will just say that i strongly believe in U-HE's method which he lets any dev use for free, so i always at least urge a dev to consider it. Cheers

Is U-he's copy protection crack proof?

No. And neither is any copy protection system.

[andy-cytomic]

If I understand correctly he means releasing a local program (if the worst happens) that can generate authorization responses, like
a keygen that requires a valid serial. This way you don't need the server.

Spot on! You will always be able to authorise the Cytomic software you paid for.

[andy-cytomic]

I would very much prefer a standard serial or license file based form of copy protection (U-he, PSP, 112db, ect) if the current form can't be used anymore. I tend to stay away from dongle and C/R whenever possible. Being able to reinstall my software without contacting anyone (auth limits, ect) is important to me and I would hate to have to stop using and sell my current licenses because of this.

I do trust your ethics Andy, but there are countless examples where customers are left out in the cold due to this type of dependent copy protection after a company closes up shop (even after they promise it won't happen).

As already state lots The worst case backup plan is to release a command line program that runs on your local machine that will generate any number of auths. This is built at the same time, and with the same code, as each plugin release. You will always be able to authorise your software, either through an online server that is still kept running, or a local program.

IU-he seems to have very effective serial number copy protection that is aax compatible. Have you considered contacting Urs about it?

I have contacted Urs to ask how he limits the number of installs for each serial / auth file without involving a server. If he can provide a secure and difficult to crack answer then I will do use it, but that won't be until after this first release as it will delay things further. I am not sure Urs' system offers this functionality, which will mean I can't offer educational and studio site licenses which is really important to me.

[Rah]

a new challenge response copy protection system that will be online activation only for a few weeks.

So for those of us with offline DAW setups, we won't be able to try Drop v1 on the 3rd after all?

That's put a dampner on things

I hope I've interpreted that wrongly

That is right, you will have to wait a little longer since I want to roll this out gently.

Hey, just a hopeful thought

Will there be a demo of v 1.x available then, so we offline dudes can play with it, sans registration, on the release date?

I know you gotta do what you gotta do business wise. I also know I'm going to be seething with envy that other people are using the new version of this fabulous device before me, I'm only human

[andy-cytomic]

Hey, just a hopeful thought

Will there be a demo of v 1.x available then, so we offline dudes can play with it, sans registration, on the release date?

I know you gotta do what you gotta do business wise. I also know I'm going to be seething with envy that other people are using the new version of this fabulous device before me, I'm only human

I will release a trial version at a later date, this first version is for existing customers only, and online activation only. The trial version will require authorisation in exactly the same way as the full version, but you will get a time limited trial authorisation. This way if someone wants to try it out again at a later time I can support this. Currently to re-trial the same version a customer has to use a completely new user account, which isn't ideal! The new system is much better.

[andy-cytomic]

I will buy it in any case, but there's no fundamental difference in the safety between serial,
C/R or a dongle.

The ilok is winning right now, but only by using security by obscurity, as the physical dongle does not
have much to do with it (unless it contains the dsp algorithms).
There's nothing stopping a serial (nor a C/R system) to be equally obscure, but you will need to spend a lot
of research to be as good as ilok.

C/R is a bit like being forced to watch the 'you wouldn't steal a dvd' advertisement at the start of the dvd you just purchased

The current process for online is presented like this: The about box is shown, you click "authorise" and type in your cytomic username / email, and password, then a moment later the software is authorised and you use it. Everything is encrypted via https so it is all secure and I don't store any usernames or passwords anywhere.

[Kaboom75]

Is The Drop cascade filter the same one as in the Roland SH 1 and 2?

[andy-cytomic]

Using a high pass filter as a bass boost is one of the best production uses of The Drop, and one that I have recently given a demo of here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/10418006-post956.html

... And what is the drop doing that other filters aren't doing? The Drop is doing what analog filters do since it solves circuits in great detail (apart from the hiss!).

... and a low pass filter boosts the highs, and a band pass filter boosts the frequencies below and above its range, and a notch filter boosts the frequency it is supposed to cut, and... I thought those names are descriptive for a reason. From now on I'm just going to use a compressor for all my filtering needs, thanks!

EDIT: And, no, I don't want ANY subs on my hi-hats! Subs are not welcome here! Why, oh why is everyone simply obsessed with subs??? (A serious question!)

In the example shown the high pass filter is at around 30 hz, and the entire loop is processed through it. This cuts all frequencies below 30 hz by 24 dB / Octave. The only reason it adds some "crack" to the snare is that distortion is going on to the peaks of the snare. As I said this example is exaggerated, you would normally not process a "full mix" with this much drive or resonance.

So low pass filters cut high frequencies, high pass filters cut low frequencies and so on, but at the cutoff there is a thing called resonance which can boost frequencies, which is what was used in this example to generate more bass. I'm not sure people normally think of a high pass filter to generate more bass, but this is the best way since it cleans up the sound and keeps it "boxed off" in the frequency so it doesn't interfere with the rest of the mix or generate inaudible rumble.

[andy-cytomic]

Is The Drop cascade filter the same one as in the Roland SH 1 and 2?

The Cascade SHJ is similar to an SH1 / SH2, but it models the quad OTA IR3109 filter chip as used in later roland synths instead of using four BA662 OTAs. The IR3109 also was designed to replace four BA662s and also include an exponential converter for controlling the cutoff. The filter core of both are OTA chips, the SH1 / 2 had to be hand selected to match the stages, the IR3109 is matched by the manufacturing process. The SH1 / 2 use JFET buffers, the IR3109 has MOSFET buffers, I prefer the sound of the MOSFET buffers. Both have a diode clipper in the feedback. In terms of tone they are pretty similar, and the Cascade SHR (as it is now called) gives you that classic SH tone, be it SH1/2 or SH-101.

[Kaboom75]

Thanks Andy I've had an interest in the SH sound for the last few months. Didn't really want to learn more synths I'm settled in the u-he ones and wanted to add that SH tone to them and it does very happy with it. Thanks

[Frantz]

The entire system is written for both php and c using standard libraries (openssl), and with each build I also build a command line tool executable for both mac and win that generates authorisation files as a final backup, which in the event of any problems with the cytomic web page and online activations I can distribute to all customers.

This is not a showstopper for me but while we're scrutinizing this, let's consider a scenario where (heaven forbid) you are hit by a bus and suddenly killed. Eventually the Cytomic website would stop working and the customers don't have the command line tool because you can't send it. I can live with this risk but simple serial number copy protection doesn't have this issue.

[andy-cytomic]

The entire system is written for both php and c using standard libraries (openssl), and with each build I also build a command line tool executable for both mac and win that generates authorisation files as a final backup, which in the event of any problems with the cytomic web page and online activations I can distribute to all customers.

This is not a showstopper for me but while we're scrutinizing this, let's consider a scenario where (heaven forbid) you are hit by a bus and suddenly killed. Eventually the Cytomic website would stop working and the customers don't have the command line tool because you can't send it. I can live with this risk but simple serial number copy protection doesn't have this issue.

I think it is more likely that someone drop a nuke on Pace, then what

The command line tool doesn't have to be sent, it will be already uploaded to the web page and can easily be enabled in customer's download section via a configuration option of the web page CMS.

[Frantz]

The command line tool doesn't have to be sent, it will be already uploaded to the web page and can easily be enabled in customer's download section via a configuration option of the web page CMS.

We are imagining an unlikely scenario where you can't send the tool and can't change an option on a webpage. In this scenario, who would change the web page?

[highkoo]

You must be implanted with a deadman switch!

[masterhiggins]

The entire system is written for both php and c using standard libraries (openssl), and with each build I also build a command line tool executable for both mac and win that generates authorisation files as a final backup, which in the event of any problems with the cytomic web page and online activations I can distribute to all customers.

This is not a showstopper for me but while we're scrutinizing this, let's consider a scenario where (heaven forbid) you are hit by a bus and suddenly killed. Eventually the Cytomic website would stop working and the customers don't have the command line tool because you can't send it. I can live with this risk but simple serial number copy protection doesn't have this issue.

I agree. He goes and gets himself killed by a bus and I'm out $99. Selfish b*stard.

-Sam