KVR Audio

Vertti · Post by **Vertti** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:02 pm

Yeah. I want to share this because this is something I thought couldn't be possible.

I bought used NI license about a year ago. Used it for activating my crossgrade. Then decided I need some money and was ready to sell my crossgrade + this license. Deactivated them.

Found a buyer. He bought the crossgrade and I also gave him his license for activating the crossgrade. But for some reason the license was registered for another user. What? It's my license how is that even possible?

No have sent emails to NI and they tell me they have contacted a guy who has the license registered atm. But it has been a week and he's not answering for them. I contacted the guy who I bought the license in first place. Reads my PMs but doesn't answer. Seems quite obvious for me.

But NI says they can't do anything about this. I think giving me a new license would be fair. Wouldn't be a big deal for them. Now I have to share this with everyone because it seems you can stole NI licenses without any consequence.

Probably have to give the buyer his money back and buy a new license so I can transfer it. I'm very angry but what can you do. First time I have problems selling and buying stuff on internet. But very dissapointed how you can do this. Maybe NI should re-evaluate their license selling system. Wouldn't be possible in many places...

valerian_777 · Post by **valerian_777** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:38 pm

It is simple. You have a crossgrade and a product that enables you to use this crossgrade. This are two licenses which you can sell of course seperatly. You only must be aware of the consequences like if you sell the product which enables you to use the bought crossgrade you still have a crossgrade but you cant use it anymore. Or if you sell the crossgrade the new user should have a product which legit him to use the crossgrade.I read your post like the new user got both from you so this should work anyway.

Vertti · Post by **Vertti** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:49 pm

valerian_777 wrote:It is simple. You have a crossgrade and a product that enables you to use this crossgrade. This are two licenses which you can sell of course seperatly. You only must be aware of the consequences like if you sell the product which enables you to use the bought crossgrade you still have a crossgrade but you cant use it anymore. Or if you sell the crossgrade the new user should have a product which legit him to use the crossgrade.I read your post like the new user got both from you so this should work anyway.

Umm no this is not what happened.

I sold crossgrade and the license needed for activating it. But when my buyer tries to register his license he can't because someone — not me has its registered. And now I can do nothing and it's up to the thief will I get my license back. And because NI ain't gonna do anything I have no chance.

So in brief. You can stole NI licenses if you are the old owner and someone deactives his/her license if you still remember the serial. And you get away with it.

Vertti · Post by **Vertti** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:49 pm

double

C-note · Post by **C-note** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:07 pm

So, you are saying that NI re-used your deactivated licenses for someone else?

Vertti · Post by **Vertti** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:19 pm

C-note wrote:So, you are saying that NI re-used your deactivated licenses for someone else?

More like. Because NI let's you activate licenses without questioning the old owner was able to register it because he still had the serial. This wouldn't be possible if there would be a choice to transfer licenses from NI Service Center instead of having to deactivate and then sending them to buyer.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:38 pm

Vertti wrote: So in brief. You can stole NI licenses if you are the old owner and someone deactives his/her license if you still remember the serial. And you get away with it.

How do you "deactivate" an NI license? As I understand it, you have to go through NI support to have the license removed from your account, correct? So, whomever sold to you must have done this for you to activate the license that you subsequently deactivated, right? This assumes, of course, that NI didn't make a mistake, which can happen (see below).

So, in order for the previous owner to reactivate the license, they would have to do it in the window between your subsequent deactivation, and your new buyer's activation, right? That seems like a very narrow opportunity to me.

So, the only NI snaffoo that I've ever had to deal with, that I can recall well enough because it annoyed me at the time, involved the purchase of a brand new Traktor S4. The first two that I brought home had already been registered which meant that I couldn't download the software. I was told that I could contact NI, but I wasn't going to waste my time with that and I made the store find me one that hadn't been registered. It took three to get the job done. I think that's shady, on NI's part, for a product that's so expensive. The hardware itself should be the key to the software. This is one of the many reasons that I don't do any new C/R music software, period. Any new licenses for me must be one of no protection, serial, or hardware authentication, i.e. dongle based.

For the record, while the S4 works well enough, and for some features it's really quite brilliant, it is not what I would call "pro-DJ" kit, if there is such a term. I think it's rather flimsy compared to the competition and if I had it to do over I would have gone with something else. The headphone amp sucks, I hate the lack of balanced +4 outs, no eq cut, no return to zero for the filter, it's too damn big, the phono preamps are noticeably harsh, I could go on. Most importantly, like most NI hardware, it's damned overpriced.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Traktor as software, I just don't like the controller.

Vertti · Post by **Vertti** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:46 pm

The thing is I deactivated (or what ever you wanna call it) my license on July when I put it on sale. So the old owner has got plenty of time to reregister it to his account. When you think about it now it's stupid but I didn't thought something like this would happen. Arghhh!

valerian_777 · Post by **valerian_777** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:56 pm

Sounds like complete bullshit to me. The guy who sold you the stuff a year ago just got the genius idea to register with the old serial you just de-registered again?

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:31 pm

Maybe he kept looking in the marketplace, took notice of you reselling and take advantage of the window.

It's pretty abusive.

frankz00 · Post by **frankz00** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:34 pm

What's so unbelievable? It's an obvious loophole. The original owner sold his license and for sh-ts and giggles plugged in his old serial and it worked because at the time the software was deregistered. I keep all my serials on file so this is very believable. That's why I destroy any serial number I sell once I know it's secured by the new owner. Others it appears are not so honest.

frankz00 · Post by **frankz00** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:36 pm

rod_zero wrote:Maybe he kept looking in the marketplace, took notice of you reselling and take advantage of the window.

It's pretty abusive.

Sounds like that's EXACTLY what happened. He should be outed in the feedback thread for real!

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:39 pm

valerian_777 wrote:Sounds like complete bullshit to me. The guy who sold you the stuff a year ago just got the genius idea to register with the old serial you just de-registered again?

Why dont you provide a more likely alternate explanation? Or are you just the kind of c**t who likes having a go at someone who's already been f**ked over?

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:59 pm

frankz00 wrote:
rod_zero wrote:Maybe he kept looking in the marketplace, took notice of you reselling and take advantage of the window.

It's pretty abusive.
Sounds like that's EXACTLY what happened. He should be outed in the feedback thread for real!

Yep, it didn't occur to me that everything took place in the local marketplace. From NI's point of view, though, you really can't expect a different response. Assuming that this isn't a mistake on NI's part, it is really an issue between OP and the original seller. AFAIK, NI doesn't really "transfer" ownership, they simply deactivate a product so that it can be re-activated/re-registered, correct?

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:08 pm

Vertti wrote:The thing is I deactivated (or what ever you wanna call it) my license on July when I put it on sale. So the old owner has got plenty of time to reregister it to his account. When you think about it now it's stupid but I didn't thought something like this would happen. Arghhh!

Yeah, I don't see how there's any way to avoid this behavior really. If someone is going to take advantage of that there's not really much that NI can do given their current system.

That said, there is some potential that it is a mistake. The original seller might have forgotten that he sold the software, for example. Another possibility is that perhaps a studio employee or SO re-activated the software not knowing the details of the sale.

Is the original seller a long time KVR user?

I'd try again to get in touch with them, not assuming that a crime has occurred, and give them the opportunity to apologize and correct the mistake. If you can't get it resolved, then I agree that you should out the seller in the feedback thread.

Keep in mind that a lot of people maintain multiple email addresses. It's not unusual for me, for example, to not check the account that I use for this kind of business for several weeks or even a month at a time.

Native Instruments & license transfer – How is this even possible?