Reason 8 - Official

[krucial]

Can you show me where Props told you to go and buy plugins again? How does REs that do not exist as VSTs fit into this? You have a choice to buy or not to, you are not forced into anything. You lot are behaving as if music making begins and ends with you. So what if its market for a guy in his bedroom. The main goal is to enjoy making music whether you're in a bedroom or in the bush.

I wonder how many of you are pros. I dont care what pro studios are using. I only care about what I am using and thats Reason because its fun. There are many people who only use Reason so REs are perfect for them. I know its hard to believe but there are people do not care to use VSTs.

Props should give it up? Do you work for the competition or something? This type of statement from someone who does not use Reason makes no sense to me. They should give it up because they dont do what you want? Really? I dont get it.

Get it in your heads. Propellerhead will never support VST in any shape or form. I actually respect them for being brave and bold enough to roll their own way.

[krucial]

You know what would be cool ? If you could drop WAV's directly into OctoRex slots, and have them convert to REX format.

That would be cool indeed.

[KarmaShaman]

I wonder how many of you are pros. I dont care what pro studios are using. I only care about what I am using and thats Reason because its fun. There are many people who only use Reason so REs are perfect for them. I know its hard to believe but there are people do not care to use VSTs.

Words of wisdom right there. Apart from a brief intro to electronic music with Fruity Loops, I jumped onto Reason about five years ago, and have no intention of re-learning a new DAW. As such, I don't care about VST's - although it would be nice to have seamless Kontakt integration because they seem to have a lot of samples that would suit the music I wish to focus on in future.

However it's no big deal, as I am uncovering the ethnic instruments that exist in ReFills, and have been on a bit of a buying binge this year (Note: current as of last night, producerloops.com have a lot of 1/2 price specials at the moment).

While I think the non-transferrable model of business SUCKS, again it's no big deal for me. Once money leaves my pocket, it's gone. An observation I have been making, is the inexplicable actions of many people who complain about the RE license agreement in one thread, then talk about buying RE's in another thread. Talk about daft ! If users are fully aware of the terms & conditions and don't agree with them, why the heck do you people keep buying them?

As for 'what the pro's use'.... who cares ? Every studio I have been into (that's not saying much) uses ProTools as their primary DAW, so there's nothing to be gained by Propellerhead trying to crack that market. Although it is a bit disheartening when they release silly toys as devices. Fortunately that's positively offset by some of the really great stock rack effects that have came out in the past.

Ah the good ol' days of new & exciting additions to the rack......

[krucial]

I wonder how many of you are pros. I dont care what pro studios are using. I only care about what I am using and thats Reason because its fun. There are many people who only use Reason so REs are perfect for them. I know its hard to believe but there are people do not care to use VSTs.

While I think the non-transferrable model of business SUCKS, again it's no big deal for me. Once money leaves my pocket, it's gone. An observation I have been making, is the inexplicable actions of many people who complain about the RE license agreement in one thread, then talk about buying RE's in another thread. Talk about daft ! If users are fully aware of the terms & conditions and don't agree with them, why the heck do you people keep buying them?

I made a promise to myself after selling the very first guitar I ever owned and my Yamaha DG130 amp to never ever sell any gear I own again whether hardware or software. I regret selling those two. So now I really use that 30 day trial to the max when a new RE hits the shop. Now I do think they could do something about the transfer policy but hey in the end users have choice not to buy. Maybe they will change their stance. I dont sell gear so its no an issue for me.

[spikey]

Many do not want anything to do with Vst's in Reason just because they don't like change, period. Why fix it if it aint broke. The thing is, they wouldn't have to break it to enhance its use. You don't HAVE to use that sort of plugin if you don't want to, in other words... Reason needs to open up to AU's VST's,Wav's, MAS and others because then that would make it a no brainer for "EVERYONE" to own. The best of both worlds, so to speak. And then its not just those who dislike and otherwise won't use anything other than Reason. And besides that, it would double + the sales figures for Propellerhead, and that IS one of their bottom lines... As always YMMV ; )

[damoog]

Before I comment, let me say that I LOVE Reason.

Ok. Props, OTOH, is like Apple... without all the goods. They THINK they have the best thing since sliced DAW, but in reality are lagging. I do not want them to be another DAW in a line of DAWs. I get that. And I understand REs to some extent.

Where I get hung up are the lame upgrades that offer nothing other than some eye candy. There are some requests that go back five or six years and have never been addressed. I agree that EVERY DAW has this issue to some extent. But not every DAW is asking $130 for the current offering either.

8 feels like 7.2 (not even 7.5).

Jon

I agree with this...am I really expected to pay £85 for an upgrade that basically finally allows me to double click to add notes?...THAT IS INSANE

I know the new browser is welcome but Could some beta users enlighten me on some more new features here?

[TheNickC]

Many do not want anything to do with Vst's in Reason just because they don't like change, period. Why fix it if it aint broke. The thing is, they wouldn't have to break it to enhance its use. You don't HAVE to use that sort of plugin if you don't want to, in other words... Reason needs to open up to AU's VST's,Wav's, MAS and others because then that would make it a no brainer for "EVERYONE" to own. The best of both worlds, so to speak. And then its not just those who dislike and otherwise won't use anything other than Reason. And besides that, it would double + the sales figures for Propellerhead, and that IS one of their bottom lines... As always YMMV ; )

I think what some Reason users miss is that if you're already a Reason user there isn't much motivation to want VSTs, it's non-Reason users that are impacted the most. If I already have a lot of VSTs that I payed a lot of money for, I'm not even considering a host that can't use them and instead has it's own format where I have to buy more instruments that do the same things as ones I already own. If you started out as a Reason user and own some good REs, it's not the end of the world that you can't use certain VSTs, it's just an added barrier for converts

That said I like some of the stock rack units in Reason a lot and the biggest barrier for me has always been the sequencer. Taking some steps with the workflow like the browser and drag and drop is good, but it's not there yet. And double clicking to add and delete notes is not a feature, it's a basic operation that should be doable with a single click

[BMoore]

I agree with this...am I really expected to pay £85 for an upgrade that basically finally allows me to double click to add notes?...THAT IS INSANE

I know the new browser is welcome but Could some beta users enlighten me on some more new features here?

I might be wrong, but if you ask politely, you may not be forced to upgrade.

[Tronam]

Propellerhead, do you have to be so corporate? Why can't you just conform and be more like everyone else?

[damoog]

I agree with this...am I really expected to pay £85 for an upgrade that basically finally allows me to double click to add notes?...THAT IS INSANE

I know the new browser is welcome but Could some beta users enlighten me on some more new features here?

I might be wrong, but if you ask politely, you may not be forced to upgrade.

Believe me mate I won't be upgrading yet,I usually play ball with upgrades but you have to agree that this is a piss take?

Double click to add notes and a new browser is hardly an upgrade enticer for me YET I feel that I obviously need to be able to double click to add notes in ALL daws without the need to upgrade...

Kong,Thor...even The Echo were viable reasons to part with some coin?...why didn't they include parsec free for a limited time as part of the upgrade...being in retail myself I know this would generate some good business on release day??

[Flandersh]

You lot are behaving as if music making begins and ends with you.

In fact, It does start and end with me since it is a personal experience.

Props should give it up?

From the perspective of social science I would find it naturally that Propellerhead has to do some radical changes in the future to still be a part of the market, and that these kind of changes will have to do with integration.

[neverenoughfunk]

first off, i owned Reason since version one... Reason is not my main app but i do enjoy using it to get away from my main app... i also us Reason standalone and never rewire... with that said... in my opinion, Prop has never been concerned with their current customers... their target is new customers... again, a Reason user since version one... yes, we want this, that and 1/3 in Reason but Reason is a capable production tool with just the factory library... "I AM NOT SAYING" Reason is a entry level program nor is FL Studio but the fact remains... when individuals are starting out... the question usually is... FL Studio or Reason... Props knows this... a large percent of "URBAN" music is produce with FL Studio or Reason... couple that with the fact that 1001 "new" producers are born every single day... why would Props worry about "ole" customers when they know 1001 "new" producers are born everyday... i just recently upgrade Reason 6.5. to Reason 7 for the "free" upgrade to Reason 8... the upgrade from Reason 6 to Reason 7 was not worth $129 either... but going from Reason 6 to Reason 8 is a big jump... in Reason 7 having a volume/pan control and the eq available on the rack is a "workflow" improvement... not needing the dongle is a plus too... but again... not worth the update price of $129... but if you put the two updates together... it is worth $129 price tag... putting all of this together... i think the best practice for upgrading Reason is purchase every other update... again... Props are looking at "new" customers and not the "ole" ones... i believe there will be some who update to Reason 8 from Reason 7... but the majority (in my opinion) will be Reason 6 to Reason 8... personally, i could not see myself upgrading from Reason 7 to Reason 8... there is really no value there... but Reason 6 to Reason 8 is worth the $129 fee...

i was one who would love vst/i in Reason... but not anymore... i would like a better selection of RE instruments in Reason...

in closing... we can complain until the end of time... Reason is a "great" product without a doubt... but realize... Prop's eye is on "new" customers and not the "ole" ones... i.e. 1001 "new" producers are born every single day... think about... every new Reason purchase equal 3 upgrades...

p.s. there is a ton of great conversation in this thread...

[Mr. Fister]

VST in Reason will not happen, despite what you think its demise may be in the future. People can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that Propellerhead's answer to getting VST in Reason is Rack Extensions.

I've quoted Tronam recently in the past before, but his opinion on this was made eloquently so I'll quote him again here:

Propellerhead is historically known for having very strong, independent ideas about software development, especially when it comes to design, workflow, stability and efficiency. Adopting VST would make them beholden to another company's plugin format and restricted by whatever Steinberg chooses to do or not do with it. PH instead prefer to develop their own technology so that they aren't bound by someone's else's development timeline. This affords them the freedom to create a plugin format that seamlessly meshes with Reason's design ethos including, among other things, the front/back panel rack metaphor, superior CV/audio routing flexibility, robust longterm backwards compatibility and tighter QA for more consistent stability.

Whether we all agree with it or not, this is their style and Rack Extensions make perfect sense from that point of view.

All this makes sense, but then, Propellerheads have to acknowledge that, since RE are only available for Reason, therefore, limited in their utility, and that even users that already have the very same product for other platforms (like Uhbik, for example) are not eligible to get an RE for free (which is not the case with any other platform specific format, like AAX, for example), they have to price REs accordingly, not treating them like regular plug-ins that we can use everywhere.

If they do that, I can see a future in Reason as a DAW, provided they improve the support of sequencing (especially MIDI), since REs give, in fact, much more extended functionality. But Reason aiming to be a DAW without REs will fall very short, and telling users they will have to buy again everything they have already is unthinkable.

Now that, is extremely accurate. They are limited plugs. And should be priced accordingly.

I don't understand how some people think RE's should be as expensive as they are. When I buy a VST, I get multiple versions, that I can use in multiple programs AND I can re-sell it when I want to. Not with RE's.

[trimph1]

Wow. I wonder, sometimes, about this whole thing.

Look, did it ever occur to anyone who fights the fight for vst support that you end up sounding like a whiner?? Never mind the closed mindedness towards anything different.

I have Reason here as well as a number of other daws and rewire works fine for my needs.

The drive for vst support seems more like the cry...everything must be the same!! Whaaaaa!!!

No, its far from being a matter of wanting everything the same. It's a matter of not wanting to get robbed from a company with ego problems.

And no one's whining. Experienced people are letting their opinions be known.

You shouldn't let it bother you.

Troll:

you have 22 posts on this forum.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM are negative posts on one subject only: Propellerheads Reason

This disqualifies you from claiming any sort of neutrality. perhaps your opinions have some merit, but it doesn't matter. you haven't given any indication that you are anything other than a troll with a specific target. the only "experience" that you have, apparently, is in trolling propeller heads.

And for the record, I'm a Reason user contemplating selling my license due to this rip-off of an upgrade. but I'm not here bitching about it. Propellerheads have always done their own thing, when I was a fan, it was due to that fact. when I have raged, it was due to that fact. either way, though, I'm glad they exist.

Typical.

You'd say troll just because my opinions don't line up with yours. I'm sorry if some of my posts have been REBUTTALS......

Read that again. Most all of my posts have been rebuttals. I don't start threads.

Not everyone is going to agree with you, and that doesn't make them trolls.

Also, Mr. Detective, I've posted well over 500 times here in years past. I just have a new account.

You are not myrna are you?

Every time a Reason thread would show up he would come in with the exact same complaints you have.

Do you have Reason yourself or are you just here to stir up the pot?

[KarmaShaman]

@neverenoughfunk - while I admire contributors who take the time to contribute in a detailed manner, I respectfully suggest that you're wrong.

The future for Propellerhead is in an RE market, a musical app store with low overheads and maximum profit. Contrary to your hypothesis, it is more important than ever that Props hang on to existing customers as much as they target new users. With the closed loop model of monopolistic plugin distribution, every single user is a potential repeat spender.

Which makes it all the more baffling as to why they have announced such a lackluster upgrade. I'm leaning towards corporate arrogance (a trait always evident under the facade of the 'caring for you' grease they slap on users) and a gross underestimation of their customers in relation to how much they can get away with (or how little, as the case may be).

I am firmly of the mind that there's a plethora of improvements already developed, which will be drip fed to users for many years. Look out for a point release within a year to keep us baited and on the hook, and see how people will start gushing over how great the company is for giving free features. The 8.0 debacle will be forgotten, 8.5 will be the gift from heaven, and RE sales will continue to line their pockets with millions in the double digits.

It's the perfect business model. Up to 50% commission for products they don't invest R&D into, onto a webstore they rarely maintain, using staff solely to market their products via social media. It's a brilliant strategy in my opinion, but my respect for their clever marketing doesn't lessen the reality that existing customers are being hoodwinked.

As a calculated risk, it's going to work for them, and will continue to do so, due to the brand loyal devotees that must have the latest and greatest, and also those who are painfully aware that the RE EULA has them neck deep in the Reason quicksand, and to bail out would be a loss of the products they have been investing in.