KVR Audio

lachrimae · Post by **lachrimae** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:48 pm

This thread is inevitable

I've only spent about an hr with Codex so the following info could be wrong, but here are my 1st impressions:

- Codex comes with a TON of presets. Some will love that.
- Arp/Seq included (very similar to Element) but is very basic. It's useful for preset makers but I don't find basic arps like this to be useful for creating my own sounds (I'd use a dedicated, more powerful arp/seq instead). But, if Steve adds a Cthulhu style arp to Serum it would be a major bonus.
- Both have 4 LFOs but Serum's can be drawn to any shape and can be used as Envelopes. Codex can sync 2 of the 4 LFOs, Serum can sync all, or not. Serum allows custom LFO shapes to be saved/loaded.
- Both have 3 Env (if you don't include the extra 4 LFO/Env that Serum offers) but Codex' first 2 Env's are dedicated to VCA/VCF and can't be used in the mod matrix unlike Serum.
- Codex appears to be missing any capabilities to customize the wave tables, i.e. morphing & crossfades. In fact, it doesn't appear that there is a dedicated table editor screen like in Serum (?)
- Codex has some pretty cool dials for setting WT position but it's much less powerful than drawing an LFO/Env shape.
- Mod Matrix slots: 6 in codex, 16 in Serum. I want at least 24 or 32!
- Codex has 6 FX slots if you count EQ. Serum has 10. FX customization is far greater in Serum.
- Licensing: Waves License Center vs serial #.

If I read correctly, Codex can be had for $50 if you attend that webcast tomorrow, but aside from the low price and the huge # of presets it appears that Serum is (my) over-riding favorite.
Having said that, Codex looks like a welcome addition that stands up well on it's own. 2 months ago it might've been king of WT

Edit:
- I forgot to mention and compare the Noise Osc. Wavetable Noise Osc in Serum vs Noise knob in Codex. This is a huge difference...
- I also forgot to mention the warp modes in Serum which Codex lacks.
- 8 types of filters + FM Filter in Codex. ~100 filter types in Serum

Ok, I'm sounding like a Serum fanboy but I'd say the same thing about Codex if the situation was reversed.

lachrimae · Post by **lachrimae** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:54 pm

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:03 pm

If someone would give me some money, I'd rather buy Serum because it seems to be more sophisticated than Codex...

The MRSP of Codex is a bit exaggerated, $200...

What about the sound quality?

george · Post by **george** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:29 pm

Tricky-Loops wrote:What about the sound quality?

I'm also interested on this. Let's not forget that wavetable also needs a good interpolation or it can sound really bad, pretty much like a sampler, like http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/aliasing/

Perhaps it's time to work on a wavetable synth comparison paper

mhog · Post by **mhog** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:34 pm

Codex can import wav files directly. Can Serum, too?

PietW. · Post by **PietW.** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:45 pm

george · Post by **george** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:46 pm

mhog wrote:Codex can import wav files directly. Can Serum, too?

Looks so http://www.kvraudio.com/product/serum-by-xfer-records

But no details about what makes the interpolation HQ.

PietW. · Post by **PietW.** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:51 pm

Demo instalation, test yourself.
With a voice sample serum can even speak.

george · Post by **george** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:53 pm

Yes, it might be a good a idea to work a detailed study about how good the quality is.

PietW. · Post by **PietW.** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:55 pm

George wrote:
mhog wrote:Codex can import wav files directly. Can Serum, too?
Looks so http://www.kvraudio.com/product/serum-by-xfer-records

But no details about what makes the interpolation HQ.

By the way. I made the proposal last year would have to import Corona wavetables in WT format.
You then also had a Wavetablesynth.

fluffy_little_something · Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:01 pm

Tricky-Loops wrote:If someone would give me some money, I'd rather buy Serum because it seems to be more sophisticated than Codex...

The MRSP of Codex is a bit exaggerated, $200...

What about the sound quality?

Just like Element it will be available for 99 dollars every couple of months. Element is also 200 officially, but who is so stupid as to pay 200 bucks for that...

I also wonder what the sound as such is like. I mean, it is a bit childish to do comparison like this has 6 modulation slots, that has 16. At the end of the day what matters is whether it is musical? Whether it sounds good? Whether it is solid? Whether it is CPU efficient? For many people Serum might actually be too much in many ways...

lachrimae · Post by **lachrimae** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:14 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:I also wonder what the sound as such is like. I mean, it is a bit childish to do comparison like this has 6 modulation slots, that has 16. At the end of the day what matters is whether it is musical? Whether it sounds good? Whether it is solid? Whether it is CPU efficient? For many people Serum might actually be too much in many ways...

Complainer that then fails to provide the goods

. I'm looking forward to seeing your subjective, yet non-childish musicality, sound quality, cpu efficiency & "solid"ity analysis. In fact, if you can quantify the difference in sound quality I'll be impressed (they both sound "solid" to me).

Perhaps Serum is too much for you, but those of us that don't rely on presets need things like extra mod slots.

george · Post by **george** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:19 pm

PietW. wrote:By the way. I made the proposal last year would have to import Corona wavetables in WT format.
You then also had a Wavetablesynth.

Hehe

Well I tried to get WT format support but the guy able to work on the converter wasn't interested. Anyways what makes Serum very interesting and attractive is the wave scanning feature. I haven't tested it yet because there is other stuff going on here.

fluffy_little_something · Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:32 pm

lachrimae wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:I also wonder what the sound as such is like. I mean, it is a bit childish to do comparison like this has 6 modulation slots, that has 16. At the end of the day what matters is whether it is musical? Whether it sounds good? Whether it is solid? Whether it is CPU efficient? For many people Serum might actually be too much in many ways...
Complainer that then fails to provide the goods . I'm looking forward to seeing your subjective, yet non-childish musicality, sound quality, cpu efficiency & "solid"ity analysis. In fact, if you can quantify the difference in sound quality I'll be impressed (they both sound "solid" to me).

Perhaps Serum is too much for you, but those of us that don't rely on presets need things like extra mod slots.

Who's complaining?
I simply don't agree that everyone willing or wanting to use a WT synth needs all the features of Serum. Some people might welcome a lighter WT alternative which still sounds very good...

What I like about Codex is that the user interface is all on one page, no tabs it seems.

PietW. · Post by **PietW.** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:33 pm

George wrote:
PietW. wrote:By the way. I made the proposal last year would have to import Corona wavetables in WT format.
You then also had a Wavetablesynth.
Hehe Well I tried to get WT format support but the guy able to work on the converter wasn't interested. Anyways what makes Serum very interesting and attractive is the wave scanning feature. I haven't tested it yet because there is other stuff going on here.

You can take as wavetable Editor Audio-term. Works for serum, Komplexer, dune2, wave generator, Blofeld, Surge, EPS16, ASR10.

I'm sure the programmers would also support your format.
He's a nice helpful guy.

Codex vs Serum