KVR Audio

KarmaShaman · Post by **KarmaShaman** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:14 am

You are getting your legal information from internet forums? Dear lord. This is the very issue I addressed in my opening paragraph. Acceptance of misinformation does not make you wise.

This thread is examining the actual EULA within the Terms of Service, as posted by Propellerhead Software. I have no interest in reviewing your amateur research sources.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:16 am

KarmaShaman wrote:You are getting your legal information from internet forums? Dear lord. This is the very issue I addressed in my opening paragraph. Acceptance of misinformation does not make you wise.

This thread is examining the actual EULA within the Terms of Service, as posted by Propellerhead Software. I have no interest in reviewing your amateur research sources.

As I said above, I sincerely wish you the best in this endeavor.

I will watch with great interest.

KarmaShaman · Post by **KarmaShaman** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:25 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
KarmaShaman wrote:You are getting your legal information from internet forums? Dear lord. This is the very issue I addressed in my opening paragraph. Acceptance of misinformation does not make you wise.

This thread is examining the actual EULA within the Terms of Service, as posted by Propellerhead Software. I have no interest in reviewing your amateur research sources.
As I said above, I sincerely wish you the best in this endeavor.

I will watch with great interest.

If you have nothing to contribute (which was clear from the outset), I'm quite unsure why you were so fast to jump in with absolutely zero to offer as a counter-discussion, nor an elaboration or clarification on the stated terms. References to endless posts from people just like yourself serve no purpose to those who wish to determine the facts. You can keep your well wishes.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:27 am

KarmaShaman wrote:If you have nothing to contribute (which was clear from the outset), I'm quite unsure why you were so fast to jump in with absolutely zero to offer as a counter-discussion, nor an elaboration or clarification on the stated terms. References to endless posts from people just like yourself serve no purpose to those who wish to determine the facts. You can keep your well wishes.

Let me know when you fall flat on your face

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:30 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
KarmaShaman wrote:*sigh* Ok, if you insist on playing, then let's boogie.

Please share your wisdom with the stupid people you make reference to as to WHERE you researched the terms of service?

Where is the legal copy that states that Propellerhead RE's are not transferrable?

Is there an EULA in existence other than the one I quoted from above? That was from the company's website, up to date as at approx 2 hours ago.

Please, oh please, show the readership how you're 'not stupid enough'....
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=352278
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5910888
https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/sho ... ?p=1142137
https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/sho ... ?p=1215911

Bored now.

Guys i feel really sorry for some of you

How sad one need to be to jump in other people thread telling them their opinion or ideas are boring or not making any sense..

Oh well...

KarmaShaman · Post by **KarmaShaman** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:43 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:Let me know when you fall flat on your face

What on earth are you talking about? At what point did you get it into your head that I am going to 'sue' Propellerhead? Why do I need a 'legal budget'? It's a theme that you're sticking to quite often. This isn't some cop drama on Fox, it's Consumer Law. This thread is intended to disseminate correct information. That information is examining the precise wording lifted from the ToS. You are not only incapable of reading the Terms of Service, but also forum threads? I'm wondering how you can stand behind this statement with any confidence:

Mushy Mushy: I'm not stupid enough to purchase something before researching it beforehand

I highly doubt that you are one of the 5% of people that actually read online ToS before agreeing to the purchase of goods and services.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:50 am

KarmaShaman wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote:Let me know when you fall flat on your face
What on earth are you talking about? At what point did you get it into your head that I am going to 'sue' Propellerhead? Why do I need a 'legal budget'? It's a theme that you're sticking to quite often. This isn't some cop drama on Fox, it's Consumer Law. This thread is intended to disseminate correct information. That information is examining the precise wording lifted from the ToS. You are not only incapable of reading the Terms of Service, but also forum threads? I'm wondering how you can stand behind this statement with any confidence:

Mushy Mushy: I'm not stupid enough to purchase something before researching it beforehand

I highly doubt that you are one of the 5% of people that actually read online ToS before agreeing to the purchase of goods and services.

The legal budget comment was mentioned in my very first post, and hasn't been mentioned since. You were right about needing one for consumer law proceedings. I admit that, and this is precisely why it's not been mentioned since.

A question for you: surely this conversation would carry significantly more weight on the official Propellerheads forum would it not? Any reason why you're not over there?

KarmaShaman · Post by **KarmaShaman** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:52 am

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you feel you're contributing to the topic?

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:55 am

KarmaShaman wrote:On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you feel you're contributing to the topic?

To be honest, I couldn't care less about it, and am trying to get out of the thread but you continue to reply to me.

I'm out now. If you'd be so kind as to stop addressing me as well, I think that will be in both of our interests.
Deal?

damoog · Post by **damoog** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:04 am

KarmaShaman wrote:On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you feel you're contributing to the topic?

KarmaShaman · Post by **KarmaShaman** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:05 am

solar28 wrote:Awesome observation. Propellerheads has said Rack Extensions aren't transferable. But that Eula seems pretty clear. Not only that but there are certain EU restrictions on policies like that. I would hope it wouldn't go to court. I would think even if they changed the Eula software RE's bought before could still be resold; provided a third party agreed to it.

Sorry, mate. I overlooked this post in amongst the brown noise.

Terms of Service can be a tricky thing; I have reviewed many in my time, before public release, (real-world, not software etc), and there is often a clause that states that the terms can be altered at any time, and the end user must accept adherence to these changes. Effectively an agreement to clauses that have not yet been enacted. Google & Facebook do it all the time (you should see their ToS, it's huge).

For a small company like Propellerhead, an EU based consumer trading ombudsman would be enough to challenge any pre-updated TOS purchases. However, that's not the case TODAY - as of this moment the Propellerhead ToS, and the EULA concerning Propellerhead Rack Extensions states that licences CAN be transferred.

I don't even see how this is even debatable when we have the legal document available to view.

Who would like to test this ? I will sell someone my Audiomatic license for half the shop price, and initiate the transfer discussion with Propellerhead.

KarmaShaman · Post by **KarmaShaman** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:07 am

Mushy Mushy wrote: I'm out now. If you'd be so kind as to stop addressing me as well, I think that will be in both of our interests.
Deal?

Thanks for your cooperation. There is no benefit to the topic, nor the worldwide Reason user community, for derailed discussion. Please read the Terms of Service on your way out.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:10 am

KarmaShaman wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote: I'm out now. If you'd be so kind as to stop addressing me as well, I think that will be in both of our interests.
Deal?
Thanks for your cooperation. There is no benefit to the topic, nor the worldwide Reason user community, for derailed discussion. Please read the Terms of Service on your way out.

Mivo · Post by **Mivo** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:56 am

KarmaShaman wrote:Consumer Law requires no court proceedings nor a 'legal budget' to commence.

Which EU country has an actual law that states that software licenses must be resellable?

KarmaShaman · Post by **KarmaShaman** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:11 am

Mivo wrote:
KarmaShaman wrote:Consumer Law requires no court proceedings nor a 'legal budget' to commence.
Which EU country has an actual law that states that software licenses must be resellable?

perhaps the question should be which EU country allows a business to operate outside of their own terms of service. What is your point here, did you read the terms of service? There is no such clause stating that Propellerhead REs cannot be transfered. It specifically states that Propellerhead software CAN be transferred.

This non-transfer myth is the single greatest misinformation being spread since their release.

Propellerhead Rack Extensions ARE Transferrable