Synthesizer an ethnic instrument?

[sfd]

I don't really like the expression "ethnic music or ethnic world or ethnic instruments. It gives me a strong imkpression of the "we and them" ideology.

In what way is a saz ethnic and a Saxophone not?

If there's ethnicity to an instrument then there's ethnicity to all instruments.

Of course an instrument has just as little ethnicity as a car. Ever heard of ethnic cars?

The labeling of instruments as ethnic has something to do with the origin of the instrument. A saz is labeled as an ethnic because it comes from Turkey. And a turk is supposed to have some sort of ethnicity. Just as a Japaneees or a frenchman.

And here this "we and them" ideology comes in. "We" are not related with ethnicity. "They"are (althougt nto their cars). So "their" the "others" instruments are , of course, ethnic. While "our" instruments , of course , are not. Just as "our" music can never be ethnic. Only "their" music can. But never their cars.

And why not their cars?

Because we tend to only, o rmostly, label culture this way. Music, food, art can , if it's "their's" be ethnic. While cars and refrigerators
are not.

I wonder if they label instruments this way in India or Egypt.

[nineofkings]

I completely agree. People, food, and instruments are usually only called "ethnic" in that they're from somewhere with fewer white people/white people influence.

[2ZrgE]

I don't really like the expression "ethnic music or ethnic world or ethnic instruments. It gives me a strong imkpression of the "we and them" ideology.

For me it's just a marker for not expecting sounds from a 'classical' orchestra but sth 'exotic', compared to the sounds I know where I come from (Western Europe).

[sfd]

And that's a part of the problem. Because the world doesn't circulates around "us".

What is a "classic" instrument for a person from China or India? What is "exotic" for them? What is "unexpected" for them?

Who is this "marker" for? For me, for you, for "us" for Them"?

And they too visit KVR and many other websites where we can find the label "Ethnic".

Shall we expect that all those sites and all those who label things as "ethic " are for "us" only and not for "them"?

[ras.s]

How else could we then play world music?! (just kidding)


To some extent your concern is valid, I think. But we like labels. And a lot of instruments are unique to a certain people, while what could be considered "non-ethnic instruments" are pretty common fodder all around the world in popular music (guitars, drumsets, keyboards, etc). And then a lot of instruments are known by being specific to a certain ethnicity, like saz and baglama are the same thing but then they're not.

Calling certain instruments ethnic could just as well be seen as acknowledgment of the diversity we as one humanity have. There are things that today are common everywhere and then there are things that are unique to a certain people and underlining their 'ethnicitiness' is an acknowledgement of the people the instrument came from. However replacing 'ethnic' with the the name of the people hardly does anything, since it might as well be that no one else has the exact same kind of instrument. And it's not just a western/white/european thing, there's plenty of 'ethnic' instruments coming from those ethnicities/cultural sphere.

And then there's a lot of new instruments, instruments born in just the past fifteen or thirty years or so, instruments that I think are best labeled as 'new age instruments', not referring to a musical style but the time we are living in (stuff like xaphoon and hang drum, etc).

[fluffy_little_something]

Who cares what Chinese say about Western instruments? I sure don't because I am not in China. And if I were I would understand if they referred to bagpipes as an ethnic instrument, Celtic in this case.

I do think there is a certain range of instruments that Western music is based on (regardless where they originally came from), and everything beyond that is ethnic so to speak. Some of those instruments do sound very un-Western, for instance Australian or Indian instruments.

The synthesizer is probably among THE most Western instruments out there. It originated in Europe and the US at a time when most parts of the world did not have electricity, yet.

It is indeed the same with music as such. Portuguese pop is considered normal pop music, especially when sung in English. But Fado is often found in the World music section.

From a Western perspective Western music is of course the standard, and everything else is exotic. I bet Indians feel the same way about their music.

[sfd]

How else could we then play world music?! (just kidding)


To some extent your concern is valid, I think. But we like labels. And a lot of instruments are unique to a certain people, while what could be considered "non-ethnic instruments" are pretty common fodder all around the world in popular music (guitars, drumsets, keyboards, etc). And then a lot of instruments are known by being specific to a certain ethnicity, like saz and baglama are the same thing but then they're not.

Calling certain instruments ethnic could just as well be seen as acknowledgment of the diversity we as one humanity have. There are things that today are common everywhere and then there are things that are unique to a certain people and underlining their 'ethnicitiness' is an acknowledgement of the people the instrument came from. However replacing 'ethnic' with the the name of the people hardly does anything, since it might as well be that no one else has the exact same kind of instrument. And it's not just a western/white/european thing, there's plenty of 'ethnic' instruments coming from those ethnicities/cultural sphere.

And then there's a lot of new instruments, instruments born in just the past fifteen or thirty years or so, instruments that I think are best labeled as 'new age instruments', not referring to a musical style but the time we are living in (stuff like xaphoon and hang drum, etc).

Indeed a very good and interesting point.

As for instruments such as guitars drumkits, keyboards etc..that makes some kind of sense. Those are widely spread instrument world wide. Those instruments are, unlike the bagpipe for instance, not so bound to a certian type of music and people. We hear those instruments in all kinds of music from all over the world.

But there are also other instruments that are labeled as non-ethnic to whose that description or explenation doesn't fit so well. Or at least not in the same manner.

Take the fagot for example. An instrument that can be found in a (western) classical orchestra.

In this case it's not the common use of thsi instrument world wide that label it non-ethnic. But rather the music it's connected with.

Ewen though (western) classic music nowdays also have composers from all over the world the music it self is very much connected to Europe. Not Japan. Even if there are japaneese composers and performers of that kind of music.

As a difference to the guitar, that is used for all kinds of music from all parts of the world, the fagot is not usually heard in latin, oriental or any other music around the world. In this case the use of the fagot is similar to the use of the bagpipe. It's more or less bound to a certain form of music. Music clearly bound to a certain area and people. The fagot is recognized as an European instrument played in European music.

Just as the saz.

A saz is, like the fagot, not commonly used in all kinds of musical styles around the world. Like the guitar or keyboard. And even though it's bound to a certain people and area, just like the fagot, it's played all over the world, just as the fagot. And as in the case with the fagot, it's mostly played within a certain msuic style. In the Middle East, in Magred, In Europe , In America an even in th heartland of the bagpipes.

To some extent our views are characterized by the clutural sphere we are grown up in. With that in mind we realize that our views are not neccesarry the saem as other's. It's natural and understandable that we see and describe the world from our own culturar views. And it's natural and understandable that it can be difficult to view things differently. Even though we intellectually understand and realize this. It's one thing to understand and that there are other views and another to apply them. No matter how muh I can understand that a woman might view things different from a man. I can never truly see things the way a woman do. That would require me to grow up as a woman and experience life as a woman.

Yes - your views do make sense. It's a good explanation. Although they are inevitably influenced by by our European views.

If an instrument is "odd" and unusual And if that instrument mostly is connected to a certain music style that in turn is closely connected to a certain people it's labeled ethnic.

But as we've seen with the saz and the fagot this is not always the case (saz is used in a variety of musical styles).


Maybe the globalization of music and instruments is just a bit faster then our abilities to describe and label it.

The amount of musical styles labeled as "world music" is rapidly shrinking. And with that the instruments connected to that music. Although the term "world music " didn't exist then. Jazz would most likely have been labeled as such. At lest is hould have been.

This is, or should be, also the case today with many musical styles.

A reason why , for example, music from the Midddle east is labeled "world music" is that we are the one's labeling it. Not hundreds of millions of the "others" who listens and plays that music all over the world.