KVR Audio

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:22 pm

Hi

Although I should just stick with Logic PC 5.5; I have recently been looking at alternatives, with the view of upgrading my Host and instigating a gradual weaning away from Logic.

I made my first port of call with Sonar and Project5 - this is not going to be easy - methinks!

People say Logic appears complex - WOW - Sonar freaked me out! - everything seemed so minute and convulted - I realy want to like this APP but I am not feeling it!

As for Project5 - the whole foundation of my work tends to take place on the piano roll/midi editing level - well - how on earth you are suppossed to work on a complex pattern within an area of a few inches of screen is beyond me?

I have played around with Orion, Fruity and Reason but they all just don't hit the sweet spot - I have the Cubase SX1 demo to play around with next.

Am I too choosy, have I become institutionalised by Logics-logic or perhaps I need to spend £4,000 on a G5/Logic6 combo?

When will this misery end?

Flipper.

ambe · Post by **ambe** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:33 pm

I would say that you have become so used to logic that moving to any host is going to take time to get used to. Try and spend as much time with the demos as you can to try and get into the way the different hosts work.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:41 pm

I got used to Cubase after 5 years of Logic inside of a couple of hours. I really had to retrain myself to think logically, and it just gets easier from there.

Devon

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:44 pm

Hi

Devon - is there much difference between SX1 and SX2.

I had intended to put ver 1.02 on my machine today for a trial.

Flipper.

dougsyo · Post by **dougsyo** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:56 pm

Sonar 2.2 made a lot of sense to me, but I'd only used "Jazz" before that, so anything would've had a learning curve.

However, once I got FLStudio, I rarely start a project in Sonar, but that's where I finish them. Ironically, I got interested in FLS because of the "Express" version packed with some other music software.

Perhaps if Project5 had come out sooner, I'd have looked at that as an alternative to FLS, but it was "too little too late".

Doug

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:13 pm

I've been thinking about the exact same thing for a while. I make plenty of blues among other things, but logic 5.5.1 PC has been enough for me.

Every now and then I play around with the idea of switching hosts, but I've come to the conclusion that there's no real need for at least few years. I mean let's face it, this software is still pretty damn good.

Besides, if you're like me, you'de be so used to the logic workflow the host switch would seem like a sacrifice for a long time.

It's an unfortunate side effect, but I will have to buy a Mac someday in the not-so-distant future...

Most of my favourite plugs are on OSX already. But I would definitely weep for losing Voxengo, Kjaerhus and Wavelab, and a few others.

Maybe I'll end up running two systems.

meister eder · Post by **meister eder** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:56 pm

Ask yourself:

"What am I missing from Logic 5.5? What features do other hosts or Logic 6 have that I badly want to work with?"

Then ask yourself:

"Could I accomplish the same by running another host/program (e.g. Ableton Live, Reason) in parallel via Rewire or by using a plugin like Energy XT inside Logic?"

Don't give up the tool you feel comfortable with, if you don't really have to...

Philly · Post by **Philly** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:10 pm

As for Project5 - the whole foundation of my work tends to take place on the piano roll/midi editing level - well - how on earth you are suppossed to work on a complex pattern within an area of a few inches of screen is beyond me?

You can resize the window.

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:23 pm

Hi

Re - Project5 - I could resize the Sequencer window , but couldn't find a way to resize the piano-roll.

Re - Change of host - Logic does most of what I want it to do - BUT - I am fed up with crashes, constant crashes that are based around vst conflicts - I also have never liked (or understood!) the way Aux objects need to be created for multiple out instruments - I don't feel comfortable with the general 'Enviroment thing' - I think you can probably tell that I am ready to move!

Flipper.

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:27 pm

Man, I had a similar problem only I couldnt find the right host. Ive been through every freaking shareware host there is. Was just about to go Logic before they dumped the PC version.
Finally I tried Ableton Live, never bothered before due to its lack of midi. So with Live4 having midi I checked out Live3 and damn if it isnt fantastic. So logical and intuitive, really, you barely need to touch the manual to get going. At last after f**k knows how many years I have found my host

kingtubby · Post by **kingtubby** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:46 pm

You could give Podium a try
http://www.zynewave.com/
It's still a bit lacking in certain areas but development is progressing rapidly and I think it has great potential. It's very stable and once you get your head around the setup, it's intuitive to work with IMHO.

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:51 pm

Hi

Yes; Ableton4 - waiting for the demo, I tried 3 and it did come over as quite intuitive - but I need my synths! - hopefully 4 will sort this out.

King Tubby - your not a Reggae man are you?

Flipper.

wrench45us · Post by **wrench45us** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:59 pm

a lot of dealing with Project 5 comes in screen management. The 3 or 4 basic windows can be opened and closed and resized and two monitors or the double sized window on a single monitor is being touted by some Sonar and P-5 users. I'm going to try it out this weekend.

P-5 was almost the first host I looked at and certainly the first host that made sense to me and most of what I do is piano roll recording and editing.

But I think we can all sympathize with how difficult it is to adapt to certain other conceptual models. The Tracktion demo made instant sense to me because it shares the 'one track one synth' P-5 model. I look at screen shots of Sonar and don't want to go any further.

But for drum lines I use FLStudio because it's just so easy to start with a template and build from there. Clone a kick, load a new sample, the channel's already assigned to where the parent was assigned. Check the fx and select the compresssor. etc. Build a pattern. Set the pattern in the song view.
For the first drum variation, clone the selected pattern, change some beats, set the new pattern in the song view.
It's all right there. To me it's much more flexible than P-5 to build up/modify a kit and its processing and program. To do the same thing in both requires crossing 'module' boundaries, but it doesn't seem as cumbersome in FLS.
But throw in a synth into the group and it just doesn't make sense to me what a synth is doing in there with all those drums, esp. when other patterns are handling the drums and all the drums in the new pattern have to be empty.

With all the talk about Ableton I downloaded the Live 3 demo. With my limited view I can instantly see 'a' way to use it, but I can't see using it for building a project. I'll wait and see how the reviews go forward.

It's the same thing with energyXT. Some things are so great and straightforward -- like envelope automation, and the whole graphic approach, but I've tried a few times and it's just a chore to use the sequencer.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:04 pm

original flipper wrote:Hi

Devon - is there much difference between SX1 and SX2.

I had intended to put ver 1.02 on my machine today for a trial.

Flipper.

Really? Not much. I like SX2's look better, and it has enhancements, but you'll get the general workflow down with SX 1 no problem.

Devon

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:08 pm

Kingston wrote:Besides, if you're like me, you'de be so used to the logic workflow the host switch would seem like a sacrifice for a long time.

It's an unfortunate side effect, but I will have to buy a Mac someday in the not-so-distant future...

Sorry I have to snicker at this, but it's obvious you haven't even tried to switch.

It's not that difficult as people who've only used one host make it out to be. Yes, there is a learning curve, yes, you'll have to dig for a few features, but if you can read, you can learn.

I have a hard time swallowing that I'd need to buy a $3000 dongle to get a machine to keep up with a cheaper PC solution.

Also, I found it to be the better option to sell my license early and get more money, which actually paid for my SX1 cross grade, then upgrade to Sx2 later, and I only paid I think $50 total to move. (Sold Logic for $400, paid $299 for crossgrade, and $149 for upgrade)

Devon

Choosing a new host - blues!