Something is cooking: RAGNAROK - RELEASED !!!

[BlackWinny]

Seems like graphics are embedded into the DLL, so you can pry it open with a tool like ResHacker, export the graphics, and edit away in Photoshop or the like, then replace resources and repack into DLL.

I don't have much experience with skinning, but I will try Will release it here if it gets good

i will reskin a plugin if the gui is absolutely atrocious, or sometimes if asked (the OBXA skin)
the Ragnarok gui is quit good and don't see why anyone would want to change it.

Once again (after having written it innumerable times) because having a strong eyesight impairment I CAN'T USE GUI'S HAVING WHITE BACKGROUNDS NOR GUI'S HAVING SO BAD CONTRASTS!

Why the hell is there so many GUI developers who don't care at all about the visually impaired musicians!


IS A GUI A TOOL FOR THE BEST USE OF THE FEATURES OR IS A GUI A MASTER ART PAINTING!?

[mztk]

we're all gonna be visually impaired, using computers. only a matter
of time...

[bftucker]

Why the hell is there so many GUI developers who don't care at all about the visually impaired musicians!

IS A GUI A TOOL FOR THE BEST USE OF THE FEATURES OR IS A GUI A MASTER ART PAINTING!?

I think I know the answer to both your questions:

First, GUI developers care. Their caring is proportional to the number of users with that particular impairment. If 100% were blind, all VSTs would be in braille.

Second, your question is a false dichotomy. It is both a tool for the best use of features and, the designer hopes, a work of art. The potential user's likes and dislikes, for whatever reason, are often of secondary consideration. The designer's likes and dislikes naturally enough take precedence.



I have an eyesight problem myself. Ragnarok needs more contrast! I spent my savings for new eyeglasses on a Moog Sub 37.

[zerocrossing]

Why the hell is there so many GUI developers who don't care at all about the visually impaired musicians!

IS A GUI A TOOL FOR THE BEST USE OF THE FEATURES OR IS A GUI A MASTER ART PAINTING!?

I think I know the answer to both your questions:

First, GUI developers care. Their caring is proportional to the number of users with that particular impairment. If 100% were blind, all VSTs would be in braille.

Second, your question is a false dichotomy. It is both a tool for the best use of features and, the designer hopes, a work of art. The potential user's likes and dislikes, for whatever reason, are often of secondary consideration. The designer's likes and dislikes naturally enough take precedence.



I have an eyesight problem myself. Ragnarok needs more contrast! I spent my savings for new eyeglasses on a Moog Sub 37.

If a UI designer hopes or tries to get their UI to be a work of art, then the designer should give up design and become a fine artist. It isn't a false dichotomy. If art and design were the same thing there wouldn't be two different words for the same concept. As someone who does both, I can tell you that they are related, but very different endeavors. A work of art exists as a self contained object that has no purpose other than to be what it is. In contrast, a UI design is first and foremost a facade to couple the functionality of software with the user. If it fails, then... well it kind of becomes art about the difficulty of using technology.

That said, I don't think Ragnarök's main issue is contrast, but with the font used and some layout issues. I have the same issue with my hardware synth, the Studio Electronics ATC-X. My old ATC-1 used a very readable and clear font, but when they updated the instrument they went with a similar "cyber" style font that's meant to be what they call a "Display" font. These fonts work best in larger sizes for headlines and logos, but are not meant for general purpose information displays. So, if your UI designer was working for me, I'd suggest keeping the font for the subtitle and credits, but for nothing else. Switch the font to something clear that's specifically designed for computer displays like. No one has ever complained about a simple font on a UI. One of my favorites is Helvetica Neue (an Adobe Font now used by Apple), or if you want to get fancy, try Proxima Nova:

https://typekit.com/fonts/proxima-nova

Also, you've decided to put osc shape controls separate from the osc controls. Similarly, you put the envelope modes in a different place than the envelope controls. Why? It's bad from a design aspect, and if the UI designer was going for a work of art I think the emotion it would bring up is the anxiety of separation or for yearning to be near things that work well together. Under settings you've used abbreviations when a more narrow font would probably allow you to just put the entire name of the function there and then users wouldn't have to guess.

Of course, it's your synth and it's free so feel free to ignore me, but I think you'll find that you draw some more users in if you have a more clear UI. Trust me, I've seen worse even in commercial plug ins. Every time I open up Poly-Ana I'm quite stunned at how bad it is.

[DrewDale]

Just slightly off topic:
Would be cool if Full Bucket were to make a Drum Machine

[Maomoondog]

I don't have much experience with skinning, but I will try
Actually, although I don't see any problem if you edit the skin for your own use, you'll need authorization from Full Bucket (and me) to re-distribute. I can tell you upfront that I'm not in favor of that. This is an actively maintained plugin with updates over time and possible new versions in the future, and redistributing 'hacked' versions will make a mess of version control.

I hacked my own personal variation, due to fading eyesight. Not for re-distribution, so please don't ask for the dll.

[crimsonwarlock]

Thank you for this synth. Great Sound! Demo .
https://soundcloud.com/iu-gob/ragnarok-demo

Nice

[crimsonwarlock]

IS A GUI A TOOL FOR THE BEST USE OF THE FEATURES OR IS A GUI A MASTER ART PAINTING!?

The GUI is the result of certain decisions made by the developer and/or designer... period. It doesn't matter which decisions lead to this particular design, it's what it is and that's it. When someone gives something for free to the community, it should be understood that it's that. Don't like the GUI... don't use it. Don't like the sound... don't use it. I've never bitched about anything EVER!!!! when regarding free stuff that was given to me. And believe me, I do have issues with certain freeware synths... but I deal with them in any way possible or decide to not use it.

Yes, I would really like for you to enjoy this synthesizer, but YES, I made the GUI this way because I like it (a lot) and it inspires me.

[kuzami]

I don't have much experience with skinning, but I will try
Actually, although I don't see any problem if you edit the skin for your own use, you'll need authorization from Full Bucket (and me) to re-distribute. I can tell you upfront that I'm not in favor of that. This is an actively maintained plugin with updates over time and possible new versions in the future, and redistributing 'hacked' versions will make a mess of version control.

I hacked my own personal variation, due to fading eyesight. Not for re-distribution, so please don't ask for the dll.

Can you send me the pictures, then?

[crimsonwarlock]

Also, you've decided to put osc shape controls separate from the osc controls. Similarly, you put the envelope modes in a different place than the envelope controls. Why?

Because I decided that this is VERY logical for me. Secondly, if you read the background (in the manual) you know that this is based on hardware, and that hardware had this configuration for many many reasons, some technical, some ergonomical. Believe me, if you are performing on stage and need to set stuff between songs (no patch memories back then), this layout is VERY useful and ergonomic.

It's bad from a design aspect

No it's not, you just don't like it

If it's 'bad from a design aspect', please point me to any serious research on synthesizer ergonomics

and if the UI designer was going for a work of art I think the emotion it would bring up is the anxiety of separation or for yearning to be near things that work well together. Under settings you've used abbreviations when a more narrow font would probably allow you to just put the entire name of the function there and then users wouldn't have to guess.

The abbreviations where on the original hardware, and very common during that time. Those abbreviations where used all throughout the official documentation of the hardware DIY-kits that the hardware was build from.

Of course, it's your synth and it's free so feel free to ignore me, but I think you'll find that you draw some more users in if you have a more clear UI. Trust me, I've seen worse even in commercial plug ins. Every time I open up Poly-Ana I'm quite stunned at how bad it is.

The problem with your opinion is... well, that it's your opinion. I've received numerous compliments on the GUI, both about it's color scheme AND about the placement/grouping of the controls. The word 'intuitive' has been mentioned more then once already.

Also, with things like this, it's simply impossible to please everyone

[crimsonwarlock]

I hacked my own personal variation, due to fading eyesight.

Nice colorscheme Although there are a few issues, like the function buttons being inverted (they look like they are pressed in) and the flip switches not having the dark background. But for a quick hack (I pretty much see what you did, because of the omissions) it's not bad at all.

[zerocrossing]

Also, with things like this, it's simply impossible to please everyone

Right, but it's easy to make everyone miserable.

Honestly, I could not care less about your synth, I was just trying to help. I normally make a pretty good living as a UI designer. Of course, there are opinions and there are Opinions. I've carefully studied and applied UI design professionally for a long time, so I would imagine that gives me a little more weight in my opinion, but like I said, feel free to ignore me. you want me to point you to research? Sorry, I got mine by spending... probably hundreds of hours, watching people interact with computer UIs. I just thought you might be interested in a few suggestions as to how you could improve your synth.

[bftucker]

"...everyone miserable"?

Some people prefer Paul Klee

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/klee/hd_klee.htm

to
William-Adolphe Bouguereau

http://www.bouguereau.org

I have my reasons but I suspect that they tend to be post-hoc justifications.

In any case, thanks for Ragnarok!

[crimsonwarlock]

Right, but it's easy to make everyone miserable.

Well, the positive reactions to the GUI far outweigh the negative ones

I just thought you might be interested in a few suggestions as to how you could improve your synth.

Of course, and fair enough. But the problem with 'design' is that it is highly subjective, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that. One persons poison is another one's cake... etc.

Just to elaborate a bit on the controls grouping: Synthesizers started with modular systems, and on a modular system a envelope is a 'separate modulator'. When you want to change the envelope for the filter, you don't go to the filter module, you go to the envelope module that is designated to the filter. I grew up and learned subtractive sound design based on those modular architectures. And because the Ragnarök hardware was partly build with modules from a modular system, it was a logical consequence to have the controls grouped as they are. Take a look at the MiniMoog Voyager and you'll see clearly that the filter-envelope, although adjacent with the filter, is presented as a separate 'module'.

Besides that, on a dark stage it is very handy if you want to change the filter envelope, that it is not 'mixed in' with the other filter controls.

[rayola1]

I'm a Klee man, myself...