Mike Oldfield using FL Studio.

[Majken]

Wow, this really makes me sad. Unprofessional seems to be the key word here. There was never a proper agreement? Well why did you pay a "fortune" then?

-those adapters were *crashing* FL used as a VSTi. Not even an error message, *crashing*. We spent weeks to figure out why they were crashing until he told it was a protection, because 'FL Studio VSTi' is NOT 'FL Studio', he argued.

Well it seems likely he wants to protect the license. Running FL as a VSTi would make it possible to run buzz plugins in other hosts. This is not the same thing as running them inside FL.

-meanwhile (well, rather before), someone else had done buzz adapters, and we should rather have bought them from him.

You really shouldn't have since they are illegal.

-dev of buzz machines felt screwed up by the big evil Image-Line for stealing their *cough* amazing and free machines to use in the crap FL Studio.

Their "cough" amazing machines were obviously amazing enough for you to pay a "fortune" for. I really don't see the Buzz scene happy to support FL with comments like that. And generalisations of buzz users really doesn't help either.

/Majken

[tony tony chopper]

Criticism helps, but bashing no. Really. I'm also aware FL VST host still needs some extra finetunning, ask arguru for details

plz don't compare our VST wrappers to those poor buzz adapters..

[JMC]

I got surprised about the price paid to imillionaries.com.

It started at $3500 and I took it down to $1000. The exact same thing happened for www.sytrus.com.

You should have left the domain as it was when expired and took over.

What do you mean? Oskari forgot(?) to renew it and imillionaries.com took it. They then offered it to us. I *really* was under the impression Oskari would have been glad we paid the $1000 he refused to pay for it.

I'm also aware FL VST host still needs some extra fine tunning, ask arguru for details

Don't think you'll find better wrappers (other than Cubase [who seems to have included its own old wrappers as an option because half of the plugs don't run in the new ones :]) than ours.

Anyway : Let Arguru drop me ( jmc@image-line.com ) a mail so we can sort things out.

I'd like to see him on our Developers Weekend in September as well. We'll go carting, play Pain(t)ball & whale seeking at about 50km from his house in Malaga so ...

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)

[jens]

Wow, this really makes me sad. Unprofessional seems to be the key word here. There was never a proper agreement? Well why did you pay a "fortune" then?

-those adapters were *crashing* FL used as a VSTi. Not even an error message, *crashing*. We spent weeks to figure out why they were crashing until he told it was a protection, because 'FL Studio VSTi' is NOT 'FL Studio', he argued.

Well it seems likely he wants to protect the license. Running FL as a VSTi would make it possible to run buzz plugins in other hosts. This is not the same thing as running them inside FL.

-meanwhile (well, rather before), someone else had done buzz adapters, and we should rather have bought them from him.

You really shouldn't have since they are illegal.

-dev of buzz machines felt screwed up by the big evil Image-Line for stealing their *cough* amazing and free machines to use in the crap FL Studio.

Their "cough" amazing machines were obviously amazing enough for you to pay a "fortune" for. I really don't see the Buzz scene happy to support FL with comments like that. And generalisations of buzz users really doesn't help either.

/Majken

I don't understand you - it seems pretty obvious that Oskari is one big dickhead and you are still replying as if IL were the bad boys (as usual)

[JMC]

There was never a proper agreement? Well why did you pay a "fortune" then?

Of course there was : There was a nice contract (stating for instance that Oskari would get an extra $5000 if we included the Buzz wrappers in the Cakewalk Boxed version, what we didn't) ... but what's the use ?

We didn't (and probably never will) have the time to take the issue to a Finish court, and battle for a couple of years (like Kelloggs & Fruit Of The Loom have been doing with us for the last 3 years) : The moment we discovered he made our stuff crash was (as usually) a couple of weeks before our release candidates, ...

Running FL as a VSTi would make it possible to run buzz plugins in other hosts. This is not the same thing as running them inside FL.

In that case he should state this in his contract and at least *tell* us he built in this BSOD.

Their "cough" amazing machines were obviously amazing enough for you to pay a "fortune" for.

Not really : Gol has always been against this idea. *I* wanted the Buzz wrappers (as I didn't know anything about most of what we do/did at the time). If it were up to Gol Oskari wouldn't have gotten a penny.

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)

[george]

plz don't compare our VST wrappers to those poor buzz adapters..

Bit of flame there I assume you haven't checked latest version, give it a try if you got some spare time http://www.xlutop.com/buzz

What do you mean? Oskari forgot(?) to renew it and imillionaries.com took it. They then offered it to us. I *really* was under the impression Oskari would have been glad we paid the $1000 he refused to pay for it.

I meant no one but IL could have been able to paid such money amount. Seeing the results, such quantity wasn't worth, though. By te way domain was maintained (afaik) by Luke.

Anyway : Let Arguru drop me ( jmc@image-line.com ) a mail so we can sort things out.

I'd like to see him on our Developers Weekend in September as well. We'll go carting, play Pain(t)ball & whale seeking at about 50km from his house in Malaga so ...

Cheers, will let him know.

[tony tony chopper]

Wow, this really makes me sad. Unprofessional seems to be the key word here. There was never a proper agreement? Well why did you pay a "fortune" then?

Oh, and maybe we forgot to add 'the adapters should be good' in the agreement as well?

Well it seems likely he wants to protect the license. Running FL as a VSTi would make it possible to run buzz plugins in other hosts. This is not the same thing as running them inside FL.

And this justifies making them crash when the host isn't called 'fruityloops.exe' and not tell us about?

Their "cough" amazing machines were obviously amazing enough for you to pay a "fortune" for.

As I wrote, I think JM was more expecting it to be 'advertising'.
Seriously, have you checked those adapters in FL? Just give them a try..

[tony tony chopper]

Bit of flame there I assume you haven't checked latest version, give it a try if you got some spare time http://www.xlutop.com/buzz or try this distro which already has got it installed (updated today btw).

I was talking about the FL buzz machine adapters

[george]

I was talking about the FL buzz machine adapters

Oops sorry, shame on my sinusitis.

[JMC]

I meant no one but IL could have been able to paid such money amount.

C'mon. $1000 is €813 these days. Do you have any idea what a full page add in ReMix, CM or Electronic Musician costs ? On top of that Oskari could have paid for it A LOT of times with what we paid him.

Seeing the results, such quantity wasn't worth, though.

It all depends what you call 'worth it' : We get about 1500 unique visitors from there. Compared to the total (150.000/month) it's nothing but compared to what we are used to get from banner adds, magazine adds, ... it's a lot.

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)

[george]

C'mon. $1000 is €813 these days. Do you have any idea what a full page add in ReMix, CM or Electronic Musician costs ?

Yes I do

It all depends what you call 'worth it' : We get about 1500 unique visitors from there. Compared to the total (150.000/month) it's nothing but compared to what we are used to get from banner adds, magazine adds, ... it's a lot.

Yeah, it's a lot but are they looking forward to the product advertised? I'd say no. Worth spending money on Buzz plugins into FL, when you already got FL native + VST/DX + rewire? I admit there are few brilliant Buzz plugins but I must agree with gol having all those other supported platforms already.

On topic: Can't wait to hear Tubular Bells FLS 2004 Remix

[JMC]

are they looking forward to the product advertised?

Those *are* the 'clickthroughs'. The number of hits on Jeskola.com is a lot higher.

Worth spending money on Buzz plugins into FL, when you already got FL native + VST/DX + rewire?

This deal must be 4 years old. I don't think we had DXi support then and certainly not ReWire.

Anyway I'd never do it again ... although the wrappers *did* bring Peter "Skaven" Hajba to FL Studio.

Oskari should have done a better job at the wrappers (supporting the machines that use wavtables, allowing machines to be chained, ...) and he should have mobilized the Buzz community to develop Buzz machines for the new architecture so those guys could have made a buck on it as well.

On topic: Can't wait to hear Tubular Bells FLS 2004 Remix

Don't hold your breath for it (although I wouldn't complain).

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)

[vurt]

at last a mention of f**king mike oldfield

wondered when you guys might notice the fuckin title

[george]

Good to know Skaven is on board, he deserves a new topic though

Oskari should have done a better job at the wrappers (supporting the machines that use wavtables, allowing machines to be chained, ...)

I don't know if you have checked BuzzLib, it is being used in BuzzLE. I know you are not interested in Buzz related stuff anymore but taking a quick look may not hurt.

and he should have mobilized the Buzz community to develop Buzz machines for the new architecture so those guys could have made a buck on it as well.

Right on. I bet we will never know the real reasons why he didn't do that. Maybe when Buzz 2 is ready?

[Mirabebe]

Skaven